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Post by paingiverguy on Apr 12, 2017 23:26:52 GMT
I know they are different models that do different things but all in all which would be best?
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psyllus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
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Post by psyllus on Apr 13, 2017 1:19:45 GMT
They fill completely different roles in an army list, so we'd need your list to recommend which.
Extoller is mostly a support piece for ranged beasts that has a nice zap if something comes too close.
Void Spirit hunts solos.
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Post by paingiverguy on Apr 13, 2017 1:29:41 GMT
I understand that but I see a lot of lists with Extroller and few with Spirit.
Is the Extoller that good? Is the Spirit that bad? Does the Extoller do more for less?
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Apr 13, 2017 2:14:14 GMT
Psyllus answered the question as best can be answered. When you build your list, what are you more concerned about? Then use the model that plugs that role.
If your question instead is "I can only afford to purchase one of these models, which should I purchase?" then I would say the Extoller will find a role in more lists... unless you play Mordikaar, at which point the Void Spirit is a no brainer.
So what is your specific question? Otherwise you're just trying to compare non-comparable things in a vacuum, which we probably can't provide good answers.
That said: Extoller. I don't often feel the need to hunt solos in my current lists for various reasons. And the Extoller's gun is phenomenal against most opponents, in addition to it being a support piece. But even then, he only gets added when I have 3 points left. I never start with the Extoller in the core list, unless it's a ranged list...
See the problem there? There's always a "what if" that changes the answer to the question...
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psyllus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
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Post by psyllus on Apr 13, 2017 3:16:25 GMT
I understand that but I see a lot of lists with Extroller and few with Spirit. Is the Extoller that good? Is the Spirit that bad? Does the Extoller do more for less? The Void Spirit isn't bad, but it has some stiff competition as a 4-point, melee-combat solo. Now that the PG Master Tormentor has weapon-master on her whip, she can hunt solos just as well as the Void Spirit, but can also help with infantry clearing via Thresher. Unless it's a Mordikaar list, PG Master Tormentor wins out over the Void Spirit every time for me. The Extoller is good because he can slot into just about any list and is 3 points. Our solo options basically start at 4 points and go up from there, so a large part of his appeal is his cost. There's not much Skorne can do with 3 points left in a list, and he works in just about any list you put him in. Worst case, he sits behind the PGBHs and fills up on souls before sniping out a key model or putting a load of damage on a beast late in the game. |
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649 
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Post by demonic on Apr 13, 2017 5:29:36 GMT
void spirit = incorporeal and living model killer
Extoller = grants magical and eyeless sight
Extoller is generally what is chosen because a lot of lists lack magical weapons. Void spirits are great killers, but they can't do much against non-living models. When they get annihilator under Mordi, however, they become beasts. I tend to use the void spirit in lists where I'm lacking in heavy hitters, but since that doesn't happen a lot in Skorne, I find myself choosing the Extoller more due to the versatility aspect.
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Apr 13, 2017 15:01:23 GMT
Unless it's a Mordikaar list, PG Master Tormentor wins out over the Void Spirit every time for me. This pretty much puts the void spirit in the bad category for me. Of course I have 5 of them for my mordicaar list where they are almost like having a second feat. New players: No you can not buy 5 void spirits in a list they have a field allowance of 2 so I have 2 of them in the list but the despoiler who is also in my list makes them when a living enemy model dies within 5" of it so I have 3 extra ones for when this happens. |
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Post by paingiverguy on Apr 13, 2017 16:14:55 GMT
Psyllus answered the question as best can be answered. When you build your list, what are you more concerned about? Then use the model that plugs that role. If your question instead is "I can only afford to purchase one of these models, which should I purchase?" then I would say the Extoller will find a role in more lists... unless you play Mordikaar, at which point the Void Spirit is a no brainer. So what is your specific question? Otherwise you're just trying to compare non-comparable things in a vacuum, which we probably can't provide good answers. That said: Extoller. I don't often feel the need to hunt solos in my current lists for various reasons. And the Extoller's gun is phenomenal against most opponents, in addition to it being a support piece. But even then, he only gets added when I have 3 points left. I never start with the Extoller in the core list, unless it's a ranged list... See the problem there? There's always a "what if" that changes the answer to the question... Yes, I'm sorry. I did not mean to be vague or rude. I'm new to Skorne and well Hordes in general so I was curious which solo will get more use. I worded my question that way because I figured people would post stuff like "Extoller is the shit!" or vice versa  Anyways, I got even more info than I asked for. I haven't really looked at mordikaar (I like him but I'm looking into other casters first), but now I know not to even think about a void spirit until I look into mordy. |
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Post by mbkplayer on Apr 13, 2017 18:12:31 GMT
Here are a couple considerations when I am deciding whether to take an extoller or void spirit. I tend to try and not make lists that have "extra points" and would rather upgrade a 15 pt model to an 18 point model than fill with solos at random.
Reasons for Extoller Soulwards:
-Hands out eyeless sight and magical weapon to one model for a turn. Best if used when you have a list with one big gun. Primary awesomeness of this? You can shoot Menoth Jacks as they approach, or clear a flag of a pesky incorporeal model. It comes up so often that I basically consider Cannoneer to be a 20 pt model and a Mammoth to be 41 (but that's because there is a lot of Menoth in my meta).
-She collects souls and hits big against living models late game. One of my favorite mechanics in Skorne is the soul collection. It makes my losses feel like a reallocation of the resource, since now I can make a boosted high pow shot against a hordes Warbeast or high armor infantry model that's trying to stake a claim in some zone. I haven't played too much of our Warcasters who collect souls with the Extoller, so I personally haven't used the handing off soul ability too much.
Reasons for Void Spirit
-He is our incorporeal flag nuisance. For Skorne, our cheaper options are a Feralgeist at 2 points and Goblin Swarm at 3. This is likely the reason you don't see too many Void Spirits outside of Mordikaar because for what a player would be looking for, Skorne has cheaper options for that role. For some caster, getting that coverage on scenario can be difficult. Void Spirits can fill the roll of spreading out without risking spreading the intended brick out too wide.
-He has hit boxes! This could be a reason to bring him with Rasheth, and ties back into him being incorporeal. Without attacking, he can still be a source a damage output while in Rasheth's command range.
-He can damage well on his own. Extoller needs 2 souls to be able to do what the Void Spirit does against living models. Also probably why he is worth 2 Feralgeists.
Note: Both models have difficulty against non-living models (i.e. Jacks) in terms of damage output. So their role in a game may change depending on the match-up. Both also have fairly good DEF and make good baits to then protect with shield guard on the approach.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Apr 13, 2017 18:17:26 GMT
void spirit isn't bad, by any means, just that his balance is drastically changed when facing living (beast models are living models) models compared to constructs. The great power difference between the two really hits home when you have to face off against warmachine so we tend to stear clear until we use mordi. With Mordikaar, they gain annihilator. This allows them to automatically move an inch and attack again, unlimitedly. Combined with the fact that they get an extra di against living enemy models, a single void spirit suddenly gains the ability to wipe out an entire fleet of infantry in 1 turn. When Mordikaar has his character beast with him, the Despoiler, every time a living model dies within 5 inches of the despoiler another void spirit is put on the board (only 1 additional per turn). This means you can start with 2 power house solos (only against living models) and get an additional 1 every round your enemy kills a living model... and ALL of them have the ability to just keep swinging away x.x; They are the natural enemy of spam lists.
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Post by sardonicartery on Apr 13, 2017 19:52:33 GMT
I'll cut through the crap:
For the most part, you only want void spirits with Mordikaar: 2 + Despoiler to start, then an additional 1-2 that the derpasaur makes.
For extollers, it's all about whether you need to ignore stealth (see mortality casters, Hexeris2, etc.) or you need magical weapons. Thus, whenever I bring a a mammoth, I have an extoller.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Apr 14, 2017 3:40:23 GMT
ANother huge advantage of the Extoller is franting the ability to ignore clouds. That alone is worth so much into opponents like Haley3 or Reclaimer.
I'd say one of your lists should have at least one for that reason alone. They're reasonably cheap so it's okay if she doesn't do anything every other game.
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