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Post by fallenexile on Jul 9, 2018 2:58:01 GMT
I started as a Cryx player in Mk1. They had the Slayer, some arc nodes, and ... not much else.
I took a long break and came back in Mk3 to play Mercs. They have the Nomad, the Mangler, and... not much else.
I "branched out" to Dwarves. They have Drillers, gun bunnies, and... well, you get the point.
So, now that I'm wanting to play Khador, I'd like to learn what are considered the best (non-character, non-colossal) jacks to take for most casters. Specifically, I'm looking to play Armored Korps with Sorsha3, Irusk1&2, Vlad2, and Butcher3.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 9, 2018 6:59:14 GMT
Sure!
The Juggernaut is our number 1 beatstick. If you want to hit something really damn hard, accept no substitutes.
The Marauder is very points and focus efficient, as it is our cheapest 'real' heavy. Whilst it has the lowest P+S at 16, it has a P20 slam, and gets bonus dice against huge bases, so it often can't be ignored.
The Destroyer is our shooting option. It's no slouch in melee, but the main draw is Arcing Fire. It can be difficult for your opponent to screen key models when you ignore almost all intervening models on a boostable P14 shot. It can also be quite efficient, as at RNG14 it can often aim, meaning you only need to boost damage using the power-up focus. It's also our most popular marshalling option.
The Kodiak is a good utility jack. It doesn't hit hard (again, P16), but it's slightly faster, has native pathfinder, and has a built-in anti-infantry ability. Its chain attack is also very useful. Now that it's the same cost as the Juggernaut they're popping up more and more often
The Devastator is our scenario roadblock jack. At ARM23 with bulldoze, and the ability to slam without losing ARM, you'll use this if you want something to just go 'NO!' and contest a zone. In a pinch, it can also annihilate swathes of infantry but lowers itself to ARM19 if it does.
Honorable mentions:
The Berzerker is pretty much Khador's idea of a light jack. It's slower, but tougher and harder-hitting than other faction lights, and it's cheap as chips at only 8 points. However, it is very fragile relative to our full jacks, and it's only MAT6. It also may randomly explode, just for fun.
The Rager is our Shield Guard. At 10 points for an ARM 20 Shield Guard that also has 3 initial attacks, you'll see them a reasonable amount.
The Spriggan is our non-colossal anti-stealth option. It's got a lot of useful abilities, but MAT6 and having the worst guns in Khador make it more of a utility jack than a combat jack with utility abilities.
Others:
The rest of our jacks are not often taken. The Mad Dog is fast, but quite weak. The Decimator and Demolisher suffer from being no better at anything that the Destroyer and Devastator respectively, but costing more points. The Grolar is actually really good, and is one of the only jacks we have that matches the Juggernaut for damage due to auto-KD, but it is our most expensive non-character jack.
Hope that helps!
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Post by Netherby on Jul 9, 2018 7:16:16 GMT
You would mostly be looking at taking Marauders, Kodiaks and Juggernauts for melee and the Destroyer for ranged. The others are either situational or bad for the most part. Sorscha 3 can get away with running Berserkers and the Rager exists if you want a shield guard.
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Post by fallenexile on Jul 9, 2018 7:17:29 GMT
Thanks! That's pretty much exactly what I was looking for!
If anyone else has any differing viewpoints or anything to add, I'm all ears as well!
Do you think purchasing just 1-2 of each heavy (or magnetized kit) will be enough or will I be looking to use more than 2 of any particular jack in Armored Korps? For instance, I know running a Spriggan in WGK Rocket Spam is popular due to Flare. Does AK need any jacks in particular? And do any of the casters Ive mentioned really prefer one type of jack over another?
Without having played Khador and with a much larger list of heavy jacks to choose from than I've had in my past factions, it's hard to prioritize purchases for the list(s) I want to run.
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Post by Netherby on Jul 9, 2018 8:06:41 GMT
Armoured Corps is going to be spending most of its points on MoWs usually, so 3 'jacks is probably the limit for most of your lists...
Sorsha3: Can run 'jack heavy if you want. Like you could go up to 6... She likes Kodiaks and Berserkers. Ragers are also decent with her. Depends on how you want to build but something like two of each of those 'jacks would make a good battle group for her.
Irusk 1 & 2: Generally don't want to spend much over their battle group points allowance. So, you're looking at 2 'jacks with them usually. Other people will need to post on the loadouts they like.
Vlad2: Same boat as Irusks, I generally run a colossal with him but you could take two Destroyers or something.
Butcher3: Should really consider getting Ruin for him. Other than that Kodiaks, Marauders...
You should try building some lists and see how many points on MoWs you want to jam in and what is actually left for 'jacks... Most MoW lists are at least 60 points of troops really only leaving room for 2 or 3 'jacks...
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 9, 2018 8:39:13 GMT
With those casters in particular, you should be okay.
Irusk1 and 2, plus Vlad2, are primarily there to buff the infantry, so the prevailing wisdom with them is to take jacks to fill your warjack points or thereabouts and leave it at that. Irusk1 and Vlad2, both having single-target jack buffs, are often run with a colossal. Since you mentioned non-colossal, I'll assume you don't plan to get one; in that case, take whichever 2-3 jacks take your fancy. Jugger + 2 Marauders is quite solid for 35 points. Jugger + Destroyer gives you decent range and decent melee, and rocks in at 27 points to use your WJP.
Irusk 2 tends to run the same way; 2-3 heavies. I'm currently dabbling between Destroyer Jugger and Double Destroyer.
B3 can run anything, but his character jack, Ruin, is excellent with him. I would seriously consider it, even though you said non characters. Usually he runs Ruin + 2 other heavies
Sorscha3 is too recent for consensus to have been reached, but her Field Marshal is bonkers. If you can trigger the Flank, everything becomes ridiculous. A Berzerker becomes a MAT8 P16 weaponmaster, although I would personally not run too many because of the whole exploding thing. Any jack becomes a powerhouse, so I'd actually rather use it to take already good jacks over the top. (A Juggernaut with three focus has a 36% chance to one round an Ironclad; the Flank Juggernaut has twice that chance with only 2 focus. Even if you rip off their arms they still hit like trucks.)
So in short, 2 magnetised kits would be a fine basis, three would happily cover almost everything. Going forwards, B3 would love Ruin, and S3 might well want a 4th jack. Another magnetised jack would be fine, but if you want a Kodiak, look for the old metal model. They still have a couple in my LGS, and they're half the price of the multi-jack kits.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 9, 2018 13:09:06 GMT
Want to contest? Take Devastator. Want to take the alpha? Take Devastator. Want to kill heavies? Take Juggernaut. Want to kill infantry? Take Kodiak. Want to kill huge bases? Take Marauder. Want to shoot? Take Victor or 2x Decimator or 2x Destroyer. Want to decloud/destealth? Take Spriggan.
tl;dr get 2 magnetized kits of Jugg, Devastator, Kodiak and you're set. If you want mass jack you'll need 8 jacks total with 2 being clams, 6 split between Kodiak and Jugg/Marauder kits.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 9, 2018 14:02:17 GMT
Whoa, man. No need to throw him in the $200 deep end; he has basically no need to buy 6 jack kits at this point. He's playing Armoured Corps with the infantry casters.
I think my metal Jugger and two magnetised jugger chassis have covered all my Armoured Corps matchups so far. The two magnetised jacks have covered at least 3/4 of them.
I wouldn't say most AC builds would need a Spriggan or a Devastator, for example, as they have a strong scenario game through the Shocktroopers and are not predominantly a shooting list.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 9, 2018 14:25:51 GMT
I would take 1 clam kit and 1 jugg kit for AK then. It would give you Dev+Jugg/Destroyer/Decimator or Spriggan+Marauder/Jugg combos. Personally I don't like 2xDestroyer/Jugg in AK, they drain a lot of focus from caster.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jul 9, 2018 14:49:42 GMT
Sorscha3 likes the Rager and the Kodiak quite a bit for their extra initial attacks.
In Armored Corps I'd make the case for a Decimator: Beat Back on the gun forces the opponent to commit more to the zone or risk being shoved out, which gets them closer you your Man O Wars. You can view the decimator as a soft way of extending your army's melee threat, which is something armored corps (and often Khador in general) is always in need of.
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Post by The Snark Knight on Jul 9, 2018 15:19:32 GMT
You can get Juggernaut kits for significantly cheaper than that buying the old Sorscha boxes from the PP store or opened Kozlov boxes from Discount Games Inc. With one regular kit and one of the battleboxes you've got a lot of options.
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Post by fallenexile on Jul 9, 2018 17:04:13 GMT
My planned purchases already include 1 Vicky/Connie (magnetized), Beast 09, Ruin, and Behemoth. Since I knew I'd be picking up those jacks from the start, I was looking for advice on the rest of the field. As Torch doesn't play with the casters I'm interested in and Drago seems to be considered terrible, I decided to pass on those two.
So far, it seems like I'll be picking up 3 Heavy Warjack Kits (with parts to magnetize 2 into Kodiaks) and -maybe- 1 Spriggan kit. This seems like it will give me the best options. Not sold on Berserker jacks.
I just want to make sure I don't overspend and buy a bunch of things I won't need or use right now.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jul 9, 2018 17:09:02 GMT
I've been running this in Jaws of the Wolf with lots of success (5-0!)
Sorscha3 -Sylys -Beast09 -Rager Kovnik Andy -Conquest Widowmaker Marksman Forge Seer Forge Seer Yuri Kossite Woodsmen (min) Widowmaker Scouts Battle Mechaniks (min) Battle Mechaniks (min) Battle Mechaniks (min)
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Most of it is interchangeable outside of the core models which I bolded. The trick here is that Stoke the Fires is a straight Speed buff, so if you go first you can run that conquest 16" up the table and project a 13" melee threat bubble. Keeps the other guy's heavies back while you get Sorscha into position up the table and start freezing things.
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Post by Netherby on Jul 10, 2018 5:28:57 GMT
A decent starting point would be two Kodiak/Grolar kits and two Juggernaut/Destroyer/Marauder kits. Think about picking up the Spriggan/Devestator/Demolisher kits at a later date.
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Post by maxtermynd on Jul 10, 2018 13:30:02 GMT
Sorscha3 likes the Rager and the Kodiak quite a bit for their extra initial attacks. In Armored Corps I'd make the case for a Decimator: Beat Back on the gun forces the opponent to commit more to the zone or risk being shoved out, which gets them closer you your Man O Wars. You can view the decimator as a soft way of extending your army's melee threat, which is something armored corps (and often Khador in general) is always in need of. I've always also found it useful (both in AC and out) as a way of getting at your opponent's objective without exposing the rest of your army. Two boosted POW 15s is generally enough to put the objective down (you might need a little extra chip damage to finish the job), and the Decimator can do that in one turn from 10" away.
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