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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jun 27, 2018 4:37:54 GMT
I have pondered a few times the idea of running a lot of cavalry and jacks at the same time. To be honest, though, there really would have to be a theme designed for that in order for it to work- Uhlans are cavalry and I did tinker with a list that ran two units of them in the Iron Fang theme, but the only other cavalry model there is Markov. Still, Khador seems the best home for a full-fledged "cav/jack" theme, and a recent mention of Vlad 3 lacking a niche got me thinking that this might actually be quite natural.
The Horse Lords
Allowed models: Any casters, any non-character warjacks, any Cavalry models, Battle Mechaniks, Forge Seer, and the War Dog.
What am I missing?
Freebies: One max unit of Battle Mechaniks or one medium or small-based solo or unit attachment per 20 points of cavalry models.
Deployment/Setup Bonus: Dragoons gain Ambush.
During the Game Bonuses: Warjacks gain Relentless Charge and Powerful Charge. Cav units gain the optional Takedown benefit from Masters of War and Band of Heroes.
How's that for a rough draft? How can this better fill a niche?
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Post by Havock on Jun 27, 2018 6:45:50 GMT
So two Drakhuns and Fenris show up on a flank and Strakhov feats....
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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 27, 2018 11:33:57 GMT
Relentless charge and powerful charge, gee oh my! Sounds powerful, if history repeats itself, the list should Grant advance deployment to cavalry models.
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Post by auraco on Jun 27, 2018 11:49:39 GMT
Forges seers feel really out of place, they are spd 4 man o war models in a theme that is suppose to be about fast cavalry models. Most list can run a couple of jacks without forge seers and manage ok.
As for the free points stuff, I would just go with for every 30 point of cavalry models you can take a free solo. If you go for our 9 point option the max free point you can get would be 18, which is equal to what we can already take in armored corps and less than what some other faction can take, so it wouldn't be obnoxious.
As for the deployment/first turn bonus I think giving jack +2 spd if they run first turn like in Will Work For Food would be good to allow the jacks in the list to be able to follow the rest of the list. I think that would work better for the list than ambushing cavalry solos.
I like the optional take down bonus as an in game effect. An other interesting option would be the warcaster in this theme gains the iron horse rule (like on kraye) although I think the reposition bit should go down to 3''. That might be too strong though, it would pretty much make jaws irrelevean when combined with my suggested +2 running speed on the jacks first turn even without going for full free points.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 27, 2018 13:01:01 GMT
I would also include cavalry BEs.
You need for jacks to keep up with cavalry:
1 jack per cavalry unit/BE gets Advance deploy.
Or +2 spd on first turn, that would also work.
Takedown on mount/impact attacks.
There is a big problem with free UAs/solos, there are no cheap ones thematically in a cav army. Would you really take mech UA or Seer?
A free Drakhun/Markov/Fenris per 30pt of cavalry maybe?
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jun 27, 2018 22:21:43 GMT
So two Drakhuns and Fenris show up on a flank and Strakhov feats.... Okay, a very rough draft. I also considered granting both one dragoon Ambush and one jack AD instead. The idea of the jacks running faster turn 1 is a better choice for the deployment bonus. They need to be able to keep up and that's what the theme really needs to add. And yeah, I added the Forge Seer just for another freebie option. Any free solo for 30 points of cav is interesting, but that shoehorns list building even more. I guess Fenris, a Drakhun or two, and Markov would all still be viable options, but a 4 or 5 point solo would not feel worthwhile. Maybe if your Merc Inclusion solo were also eligible, except of course for the Lesser Warlocks. I could see Eiryss being worthwhile. But you guys like the Optional Takedown on the warrior models? I figured that would fill a niche. |
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Post by auraco on Jun 27, 2018 23:16:41 GMT
I'm not against the idea of having more freebie options, it's just that forge seers really don't fit the horselord theme very much. Something like manhunters that do quick recon for the quick horse army would really be more fitting. Forge seers are also already in three different theme, giving them to one more theme starts feeling really redundant.
There is a precedent to theme being able to take merc option for free, being able to take a merc solo for free would probably be ok, although I would still keep the restriction to 1 per 30 point of cavalry.
The take down option is a great idea, it would also help compensate for the relatively low volume of attack of such a list, being able to get around tough that is one of the bane of low attack volume list.
I still prefer the idea of faster run speed for jacks on turn one over any alternative, it allow to take a could of jacks and not have them fall behind, which would be a real problem when our jack run as fast as our cavalry walks. Legion of steel and wolves of winter already have the problem of their jacks lagging behind, not having that problem in a horselord theme would allow for more balanced list than the typical: take two jack to fill out your caster jack point and fill the rest with other stuff that these two theme already have.
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Post by borderprince on Jun 28, 2018 6:59:45 GMT
I think Auraco on enhanced run speed is right. Pair it with Kodiaks/Grolars and you've got jacks that can keep up with cavalry - it's a neat steer when building lists to choose jacks which fit with the overall theme.
I could see giving the cavalry charge bonus (boosted charge attack roll)
to jacks as a possibility rather than some of the other options. Especially if the list were to give enhanced run speed and that encourages Kodiaks/Grolars - they don't need relentless charge.
I see no theme reason for the Forgeseers to be present. Manhunters are a better choice. This also isn't really meant to be a jack-heavy theme, so the jack support from forgeseers is less required.
I don't think that Ambush fits that well. Khador cavalry solos are heavy cavalry, and when I think of heavy cavalry, sneaking around the sides is not what springs to mind. It just doesn't feel thematic. I think you might be going for the idea of encirclement by a cavalry force with this, but it doesn't quite work to me. I'd just ditch it. Cavalry don't need movement bonuses, and optional takedown is a very powerful theme ability in the right match-ups.
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Post by bearstronaut on Jun 28, 2018 14:58:04 GMT
Unfortunately I don't see a theme like this working almost purely because of the lack of solos it would bring.
Allowing Forge Seers and Manhunters doesn't really make sense, but they would pretty much have to be included in the theme so that the solo choices arent: War Dog, Markov, and Fenris.
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Post by auraco on Jun 28, 2018 17:10:49 GMT
Unfortunately I don't see a theme like this working almost purely because of the lack of solos it would bring. Allowing Forge Seers and Manhunters doesn't really make sense, but they would pretty much have to be included in the theme so that the solo choices arent: War Dog, Markov, and Fenris. You are forgetting the Drakhun. 4 choice of solo is what we have in Legion of steel, and wolves of winter. I still think the Forge Seer makes no sense in a cavalry theme. |
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