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Post by blockmaniac on Jun 22, 2018 19:53:20 GMT
I’m struggling brothers and sisters, with making successful charges. My two main opponents are both Hordes players (Circle and Legion) and it seems Khador’s low speeds have relegated me to hoping I “have enough boxes” to last my opponents alpha strike. I have taken to staggering my heavies and leading with cheaper “bait” jacks and units to try lure them in to charge range, but I have yet to exceed a ratio of 1 charge out of 5 jacks. My most recent match up was against Fyanna Torment of Everblight and 2 Angelius. Nothing like taking our low MAT/ slow SPD against the Flight/Admonition/Dodge/+3 defense package! My list was: Jaws of the Wolf 50 pts Vladimir The Dark Prince (for forced march and S&P) Drago 2 Juggernauts Kodiak Marauder Yuri Alten Ashley Kayazy Eliminators Min Mekhaniks Naturally I was defeated with most of my forces still intact but unable to hit those defense 17/18 on my opponents feat turn. For other casters I have Butcher 2, Vlad 3, Sorcha 1 and Harkevich. So my question is 2 fold; what is the best way to get around our slow speed? What is our best caster to boost against high defense/ high mobility opponents?
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Post by blockmaniac on Jun 22, 2018 20:01:53 GMT
I should mention that as relatively new players we are not straying far from the Scenario “annihilation”. So there was no scenario win option open to me besides assassination.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 22, 2018 20:09:45 GMT
Hehehe.....
You know who LOVES to see armies that rely on high def?
Sorsha1 and Sorscha3.
But yeah - part of Khador is absorbing the alpha. A critical part of our game is figuring out how to do that and then counterback strong. It is why armies that can "cheat the trade" (for example Haley or Wormwood) can be a big problem for us as it effectively allows armies to hit us twice and that is usually too big a deficit to come back from.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 22, 2018 21:48:32 GMT
Vlad1 is about as fast as we go. Strakhov1 can go faster, but that requires unreliable Overrun proc. You can go with Hark and tank the alpha (or Kodiak cloud against Circle at least). You can go with Karchev and make opponent's alpha harder to do via countercharges.
Circle and Legion are the designated alpha factions, you won't alpha them without shooting.
Devastator is a jack that can tank pretty much any of their beasts 1-on-1 meaning they will have to commit 2 to it making the trade in your favor if you kill them afterward.
High def can be negated with slams/throws in case of Circle and boosting those attack rolls hoping for crit freezes against Legion. Crit freeze isn't reliable, but if it goes off they are screwed, if it doesn't you are screwed, very random.
Elims can negate the Admonition by bodyblocking, but against flying beasts that won't usually work. Countercharge on Karchev is a good way to negate Admonition.
I recommend less Yuri and Ashley and more Malakov and Seers. Fury mechanic is skewed against us, we need empowers and journeyman to catch up.
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Post by goodk4t on Jun 22, 2018 22:04:51 GMT
Sorscha i THE counterpick against fyanna. try her, your best bet would be WGK but thats a long shot..
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jun 22, 2018 22:07:57 GMT
I’m struggling brothers and sisters, with making successful charges. My two main opponents are both Hordes players (Circle and Legion) and it seems Khador’s low speeds have relegated me to hoping I “have enough boxes” to last my opponents alpha strike. I have taken to staggering my heavies and leading with cheaper “bait” jacks and units to try lure them in to charge range, but I have yet to exceed a ratio of 1 charge out of 5 jacks. My most recent match up was against Fyanna Torment of Everblight and 2 Angelius. Nothing like taking our low MAT/ slow SPD against the Flight/Admonition/Dodge/+3 defense package! My list was: Jaws of the Wolf 50 pts Vladimir The Dark Prince (for forced march and S&P) Drago 2 Juggernauts Kodiak Marauder Yuri Alten Ashley Kayazy Eliminators Min Mekhaniks Naturally I was defeated with most of my forces still intact but unable to hit those defense 17/18 on my opponents feat turn. For other casters I have Butcher 2, Vlad 3, Sorcha 1 and Harkevich. So my question is 2 fold; what is the best way to get around our slow speed? What is our best caster to boost against high defense/ high mobility opponents? Your MAT on your jacks is MAT 7. That is a high MAT. Your speed on your Jacks is 8 on pVlad's feat turn (total of up to a 14" threat range with your list). Those are not slow jacks. So...wth are you talking about?
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Post by mcdermott on Jun 23, 2018 4:10:52 GMT
Mat increases while defense flattens.....low mat
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Post by Netherby on Jun 23, 2018 6:32:55 GMT
Khador doesn't have low MAT 'jacks. We have average to decent MAT, especially with the update to Berserker chassis. We do have slow 'jacks, but with plenty of speed buffs at least some of them will be average speed. It costs resources to make them average speed, but that is supposed to be trade off for having high ARM and box count.
This does mean that against average speed lists with threat extenders we will be slower. Both Cirlce and Legion have a lot of threat extenders, so getting the alpha against them is unlikely.
I will just quickly talk about the Legion match up you mentioned: Your forces can EASILY hit the DEF 17/18 beasts. It should go down something like this: Legion charges in mangles some 'jacks, feats and puts Admonition up. You feat and cast S&P. You charge the Admonition model with your infantry or try to block its movement by running stuff, because of your feat you should still be in change range after it moves. You then charge your 'jacks into the beasts (for free because of feat) and boost your attack rolls. Hitting DEF 17 is already an average boosted roll, thanks to S&P you will hit most attacks.
Both Circle and Legion beasts are pretty expensive, if you only trade one 'jack for each of their beasts you're laughing!
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forged
Baby's First Wargame
Land Hoooo!
Posts: 5
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Post by forged on Jun 23, 2018 8:43:56 GMT
Tough match ups, but I would see how far you can push that fight. Cant alpha? B1 it is, got the best damage buffs in the game and the whole Battlegroup gets boosted attacks, a model gets retaliatory strike butcher sits at arm 20. I would personally proxy this up and learn the ins and outs of it. The fact beserkers have a chance of exploding is gold.
Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 3 / 3 Free Cards 50 / 50 Army
Orsus Zoktavir, The Butcher of Khardov - WJ: +28 - Ruin - PC: 17 - Berserker - PC: 8 - Berserker - PC: 8 - Berserker - PC: 8 - Berserker - PC: 8 - Berserker - PC: 8 - Berserker - PC: 8 - Kodiak - PC: 13
Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 0 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
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Post by blockmaniac on Jun 23, 2018 23:13:28 GMT
Thanks for the input....played same match up today and managed to surprise him at the bottom of two (after electing to go second for the range extension). Definitely going to work up a Sorcha/Rocket list...now that I have played my hand...
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