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Post by gobber on Jun 22, 2018 18:55:37 GMT
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Post by chrisbatson on Jun 22, 2018 20:41:41 GMT
So....yes. I dont play Skorne. But damn that battle engine is everything I wanted in a model.
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Post by TrePalle on Jun 22, 2018 21:05:43 GMT
I can't wait for this theme to be in CID. That Battle engine.... My God that Battle engine
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Jun 22, 2018 21:17:53 GMT
As long as we also get some sort of mass/cheap living infantry in the theme, then Mordikaar and Zaal1 will have a place. Without it it's Zaal2 + Whoever's released for this theme. That's mostly it.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Jun 22, 2018 21:19:20 GMT
Was stoked, but not sure how to interpret the BE. I thought for sure it was going to be a colossal.
Is it better out of BG? Zaal2 kinda wants guns, at least Mage Sight encourages it. Not a huge loss without it.
I'm guessing it's all good in the end. The model is gorgeous.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jun 22, 2018 22:00:47 GMT
I hope there's more to this. So far I don't see anything that would make the theme more viable.
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Jun 22, 2018 22:01:53 GMT
I think I like it as a battle engine better makes our low fury caster more happy but zaal2’s feat is going to be so good with them I am not sure you can design them to be useful to anyone else
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Post by illrede on Jun 23, 2018 1:43:32 GMT
I hope there's more to this. So far I don't see anything that would make the theme more viable. Possibly another attack-buying solo, definitely a weaponmaster and possessing non-linear threat ability (a second Haakar, both Zaal1 and Zaal2 in theme are improved by this, Zaal2 the most if souls can be spent to purchase attacks), with passive no-knockdown (closing off a weakness). Channeling Extoller (Zaal1 in theme is improved by this, regarding the placement of Last Stand and Zaal1's suvivability and the ability to place Last Stand on an assassination prospect). High hit-count model that interacts with Zaal2's feat (Zaal2 in theme), with passive anti-magic (goes towards mitigating a very glaring weakness in the theme, regarding spells that can mission-kill and outright kill Immortals units (or facilitate the same)). Ranged presence obtained while building towards the theme, which is an existing weakness (low scalpelling ability meaning key enemy support elements can not be mitigated). Any one of these makes the theme more viable. Zaal1 gets a longer stick to cast spells on the end of than the ten-foot pole you ought to have been using, Zaal2 gets another assassination solo prospect, passive defenses get increased all around.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jun 23, 2018 3:37:46 GMT
Sorry, but what this theme needs is to not be "I march these slow, easy to shoot guys at your army to hopefully get some POW13s in." The theme had some great tech, but if this basic fact doesn't change it so never be more than the nichest niche list. And I don't see that changing yet.
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Post by illrede on Jun 23, 2018 5:41:15 GMT
Sorry, but what this theme needs is to not be "I march these slow, easy to shoot guys at your army to hopefully get some POW13s in." The theme had some great tech, but if this basic fact doesn't change it so never be more than the nichest niche list. And I don't see that changing yet. Immortals aren't slow, nor are they easy to shoot in-theme and can be very difficult to shoot in-theme with Krea support.
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Post by gobber on Jun 23, 2018 22:29:47 GMT
In other battle engine news, according to chainattackjay's livetweeting of devtalks, turtles above the curve but not in nerf danger zone
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Post by mcdermott on Jun 24, 2018 0:33:27 GMT
Sorry, but what this theme needs is to not be "I march these slow, easy to shoot guys at your army to hopefully get some POW13s in." The theme had some great tech, but if this basic fact doesn't change it so never be more than the nichest niche list. And I don't see that changing yet. See the thing is, in design you don't take a thing and then shore up its weaknesses into a bland mediocrity. If you want it to be good you take its strengths (high armor, high pow) and you turn those up to 9-11. Eventually people run out of things that can deal with the high armor or deal with being hit with high pow. Exalted are always going to be a skew list.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jun 24, 2018 8:33:29 GMT
Sorry, but what this theme needs is to not be "I march these slow, easy to shoot guys at your army to hopefully get some POW13s in." The theme had some great tech, but if this basic fact doesn't change it so never be more than the nichest niche list. And I don't see that changing yet. See the thing is, in design you don't take a thing and then shore up its weaknesses into a bland mediocrity. If you want it to be good you take its strengths (high armor, high pow) and you turn those up to 9-11. Eventually people run out of things that can deal with the high armor or deal with being hit with high pow. Exalted are always going to be a skew list. If you read my post closely, you will notice that my issue is precisely that their ARM and POW are not high enough to make up for their other weaknesses. ARM17 just doesn't cut it into modern gunlines and POW13 doesn't deal with current levels of armor. And if a list can't answer armor or guns then it has no place.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jun 24, 2018 9:00:42 GMT
I hope there's more to this. So far I don't see anything that would make the theme more viable. Possibly another attack-buying solo, definitely a weaponmaster and possessing non-linear threat ability (a second Haakar, both Zaal1 and Zaal2 in theme are improved by this, Zaal2 the most if souls can be spent to purchase attacks), with passive no-knockdown (closing off a weakness). Channeling Extoller (Zaal1 in theme is improved by this, regarding the placement of Last Stand and Zaal1's suvivability and the ability to place Last Stand on an assassination prospect). High hit-count model that interacts with Zaal2's feat (Zaal2 in theme), with passive anti-magic (goes towards mitigating a very glaring weakness in the theme, regarding spells that can mission-kill and outright kill Immortals units (or facilitate the same)). Ranged presence obtained while building towards the theme, which is an existing weakness (low scalpelling ability meaning key enemy support elements can not be mitigated). Any one of these makes the theme more viable. Zaal1 gets a longer stick to cast spells on the end of than the ten-foot pole you ought to have been using, Zaal2 gets another assassination solo prospect, passive defenses get increased all around. Sure, I'll take a weapon master solo. Not sure why we're getting Hakaar 2.0, but I'll take it. It's probably a cool model. A channeller is neat, but not really a game changer. It helps Zaal1 a bit for sure, but his problem isn't being unable to get his upkeeps out safely, especially onto units with a CA that wants to stay somewhat back. His problem (in addition to the problems of the theme) is that Immortals dying to Last Stand feels really bad. Not sure about the BE, but anything that reduces the amount of Immortals I can take has to be extra good (since you need a LOT of Immortals for some of them to make it across the board). And I am just not sure Arcane Vortex is what we need here. It won't protect the Immortals unless you cram them all to within 3". It'll stop spell assassinations, but was that really an issue before? But maybe it is amazing. Really looking forward to a third theme that has us pushing two battle engines across the table.
Maybe they redesign some of these things until the CID. Maybe they'll have the BE grant Immortals some buff against ranged attacks (similar to what the Wraith Engine does). Maybe there are more models we haven't seen yet. Maybe the models out now will change in a significant way. But right now I'm just not seeing a complete picture that makes sense into most matchups.
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Post by jisidro on Jun 24, 2018 14:37:01 GMT
Sorry, but what this theme needs is to not be "I march these slow, easy to shoot guys at your army to hopefully get some POW13s in." The theme had some great tech, but if this basic fact doesn't change it so never be more than the nichest niche list. And I don't see that changing yet. See the thing is, in design you don't take a thing and then shore up its weaknesses into a bland mediocrity. If you want it to be good you take its strengths (high armor, high pow) and you turn those up to 9-11. Eventually people run out of things that can deal with the high armor or deal with being hit with high pow. Exalted are always going to be a skew list. You mean like Advanced move for slow troops and repo 5" mini feat so the poor sods can charge and still in be in Shield wall? Or our poor CA dies so it needs a dedicated warder to keep it alive. Or our gunmages can't shoot stealth guy (DUH?!?) so we need a true sight minifeat or or or ... This happens a lot. The pic I saw on twitch said he has beacon. So free charges and +2" charge/slam... Is this a +4" independent of caster for skorne's beasts and +2" for everything else?
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