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Post by thematsjo on Jun 22, 2018 12:49:02 GMT
I like looking around the different factions and trying to figure out how different models and themes come together, but I'm having a bit of trouble grasping your Houseguard subtheme. Are Halberdiers and Riflemen supported by Ghost Snipers and Heavy Rifle Teams good enough to constitute the bulk of an army? Even more fundamentally, which 'casters make most sense with them? Going over your models Issyria seems to be the most sensible pick because there don't seem to be any 'casters that are really "meant" to be played with Houseguards specifically. I whipped this hypothetical list up to give an impression of the kinds of models I thought would go together: conflictchamber.com/#c5201A_-0zdU4G1ghI9v3y4141dPdP4k4J4J35363u35363u393d393d3xRetribution Army - 100 / 100 points [Theme] Defenders of Ios [Issyria 1] Issyria, Sibyl of Dawn [+29] - Aspis [6] - Chimera [8] - Hemera [16] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [0(4)] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Ghost Sniper [3] Ghost Sniper [3] Houseguard Thane [0(4)] Houseguard Thane [0(4)] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [0(4)] Heavy Rifle Team [4] Heavy Rifle Team [4] Houseguard Halberdiers (max) [13] - Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard [4] - Soulless Escort (1) [1] Houseguard Halberdiers (max) [13] - Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard [4] - Soulless Escort (1) [1] Houseguard Riflemen (max) [15] - Houseguard Rifleman Officer & Standard [4] Houseguard Riflemen (max) [15] - Houseguard Rifleman Officer & Standard [4] Stormfall Archers [9] How would you approach Houseguards? |
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Post by onijet01 on Jun 23, 2018 13:51:38 GMT
Well a few points to make note of. 1. Housguard thanes are incredibly strong combat solo(s) in their own right but work great as Houseguard Support models. The ability to grant extra movement can allow Halbadiers yo gain a macimized melee charge threat of 15 inches. Their ability to allow shooting units to ignore stealth is also highly effective with rifflemen who can under their minifeat cra into melee models. The ghost snippers can be effective at both anti-UA scalping or just adding 6 points of damage to any model. Same can be said for the heavy riffle team as their boosted attack roll ability and a high (one of the highest on a gun at pow 8) ap shots can damage arm 20 models reliable. Issyeias feat turn also adds a dice modulation ability with truesight. Crusaders call can make melee charges really reach out a distance. Its a army build that simply has a devistating alpha (with some luck) and is capable of atrittioning whats left on the opponents board. Issyria is still the link as her feat requires models within so thats a thing. |
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358 
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Post by germanicus on Jun 23, 2018 17:45:12 GMT
I like looking around the different factions and trying to figure out how different models and themes come together, but I'm having a bit of trouble grasping your Houseguard subtheme. Erm... because it doesn't really 'come together', not as Houseguard at least. It's the non-specialised non-elite parts of the faction gathering at the borders as a defensive coalition. It's not a 'subtheme' of the faction as far as any tags are concerned (it's not the fluffiest theme list out there), owing to inclusion of House Vyre, House Ellowuyr, House Lys and all the Nyss Exiles. A more spiteful part of me says it's laziness on the part of PP, since it originally didn't include any Nyss, but when themepocalypse happened, they added the Nyss in their entirety to Defenders of Ios. Most think they're capable of forming a theme of their own. I personally don't (they're one non-character unit and one non-character solo away from that IMO). Short answer: narrative-ly, yes... practically, no... less the Ghost Snipers and more the SFA. Even the House Vyre Electromancers are a bit out of place here. Owing to the content of your post (no disrespect meant), but I'm assuming you don't know Ret much/have a regular Ret player local, unless you mean something different from what I'm thinking by the word "meant". Which begs the question... why do you think that? As per the fluff, Kaelyssa is one of the more junior of the Mage Hunter casters and is known as a trouble shooter, sent wherever orders send her (otherwise, she wouldn't have gotten such a janky second theme in Mk2), and her command in the Iosan military is an ad hoc force at best, so she can end up commanding anything. Thyron is from one of the less involved houses and has no sway over either the core of the Retribution, House Nyarr (Dawnguard) or House Shyeel, so it makes absolute sense for him to command Houseguard in the main to complement his own House Ellowuyr Swordsmen (re: HIS Mk2 theme force). Rahn is an ambitious SOB and he's so up himself he'd gladly command a Houseguard force if he knew it meant furthering his goals without risking arcanists from his House. The two House Vyre casters are severely distrusted by the denizens of both House Nyarr and House Shyeel for obvious reasons yet have no inherent connection or affinity for the Mage Hunter sects that they can only command their own forces and the obligatory Houseguard with any certainty, any cooperation Vyros got from Ossyan for recovering Nyssor was accepted with firmly gritted teeth. As for Issyria, she is Vyros' cousin and a Dawnguard caster in all but name, so if anything, she's considered part of that subfaction rather than home defence. Depends what you mean by 'Houseguards'... the tags in-faction? Or the Defenders of Ios theme force? Houseguard? Look up any Elara2 list from late last year. Defenders of Ios? Look up any Michael Ireland DoI list on Discount Games Inc, then compare them. Ret has nothing overtly broken or overwhelmingly OP as to be an auto-include (even Arcanist Mechaniks) that Defenders of Ios lists will run the gamut of variety: AFG's - caster dependent, can be one or two; Halberdiers - see those Michael Ireland lists; SFA - I used to run them, haven't since January. Such is the extent that out of everything available to the theme (and it is one of the most inclusive themes around, in fairness), there's only a tiny handful of models that we as a community would automatically say 'no' to... and one of them is Madelyn Corbeau. Quite a lot we'd have a lively debate about whether to include and also quite a lot that would be a strong part of any Defenders of Ios list, but nothing that would be considered vital. Also, quick question... why 100pts? |
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Post by thematsjo on Jun 24, 2018 9:09:22 GMT
Erm... because it doesn't really 'come together', not as Houseguard at least. Also, quick question... why 100pts? I'm not very familiar with Retribution, as I already said. I posted 100pts to give an impression of how I thought a Ret player might run Houseguard at full force. Sad to hear that they don't come together right now! At least that makes it unlikely for me to face up with massed Houseguards though. I thumbed through all your 'casters and thought Assyria made by far the most game play sense with Houseguards specifically. I'll look up Elara2 and figure out what I missed. Thank you for the extensive response, I wish I had more volume to contribute to match your effort! |
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Post by falkman on Jun 24, 2018 9:33:53 GMT
Erm... because it doesn't really 'come together', not as Houseguard at least. Also, quick question... why 100pts? I'm not very familiar with Retribution, as I already said. I posted 100pts to give an impression of how I thought a Ret player might run Houseguard at full force. Sad to hear that they don't come together right now! At least that makes it unlikely for me to face up with massed Houseguards though. I thumbed through all your 'casters and thought Assyria made by far the most game play sense with Houseguards specifically. I'll look up Elara2 and figure out what I missed. Thank you for the extensive response, I wish I had more volume to contribute to match your effort! Issyria is the best caster we have for supporting Houseguard models, it sounds like germanicus was talking more from a fluff perspective than a gameplay one. |
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jun 25, 2018 7:38:43 GMT
I'm not very familiar with Retribution, as I already said. I posted 100pts to give an impression of how I thought a Ret player might run Houseguard at full force. Fair enough, though the balance of the force would be a little difference, as though they're both FA:U, there would be more Halberdiers than Riflemen on the borders. In actual lists, regrettably, very few people actually use Riflemen at all, much less two max units... Well, Elara2 Halb spam notwithstanding (some folks did muck about with... five max units I think it was, but that was just crazy!). To clarify, they do 'come together' in the sense you mean, just that they 'come together' with loads of other bits and pieces in Ret, so it is Houseguard all together, just not Houseguard by themselves. Assyria? She ain't no ass! And that's an ancient kingdom AFAIK. Anyway, typo notwithstanding, Issy does do a lot for Houseguard, but then she easily does all that for literally everything in the faction, though the jacks to a lesser extent. I answered your question from a purely fluff/story perspective, but from a gameplay perspective, we don't really have a caster who you'd be able to say... ah, he/she was "meant" to be our Houseguard caster, like you can say Sorscha3 is THE MoW caster (simplistic example, I'll admit, but you get the idea, though this applies even from a fluff angle). Away from Rahn and our battlegroup casters (Helynna and Vyros1/2), this answer may well completely change when our CID is done, as Goreshade4, based on the teasers we've had so far, may turn into a solid Houseguard oriented caster (definitely a unit heavy caster IMO). Likewise with Ravyn, depending, but she looks like she'll want a bigger battlegroup than before, not really doing much for Houseguard outside of Snipe on Riflemen or the HRT. Thyron does a bit for Halberdiers in feat and Onslaught, while Spellpiercer is another universal spell. Then we get to Ossyan, who I think is more of a signature Houseguard caster than Issyria, as three of his four upkeeps help out the Houseguard in ways that are pretty much tailored for them: Quicken on the Halberdiers (move fast, live to attack and attack far); Fortune (anyone can take this, but give it to the Riflemen, let those 2-man CRA's hit reliably); and Shatterstorm, which can go on anyone to make things go pop; while feat makes the guns hit pretty darn hard, something the Halberdiers don't need help with when they charge. While folks may (and likely will) disagree with my assessment, I'm a tad too blinkered into considering Issyria a Dawnguard caster to really look at her for Defenders of Ios... |
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