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Post by chillychinaman on Apr 10, 2017 21:00:29 GMT
I had a thought, would a super generic "theme" force help mixed armies not fall behind? For those that've played 40k, it'd be similar to a basic Combined Arms Detachment. You'd get your factions full roster plus mercs/minions and the only benefit would be something like for every 35pts of units or beasts add a free UA or small-based solo.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Apr 10, 2017 22:01:48 GMT
If PP want to keep up the charade that most non theme lists are as competitive as theme lists, then it won't happen.
But honestly, I feel the better way would be to embrace it, make themes include other mercenaries and characters that suit the theme and maybe make a "Mercenary theme", one where you don't take many in faction troops but gain benefits for it, for factions who have a strong relationship with mercenaries.
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Post by AdeptusB on Apr 11, 2017 3:26:31 GMT
But honestly, I feel the better way would be to embrace it, make themes include other mercenaries and characters that suit the theme... I hope that turns out to be the case. My Strakov/Assault Kommandos list includes Saxon Orrik, Gorman DeWolfe, and Coe's Cutthroats- all perfectly in keeping with the fluff-logic of an AK sneaky infiltrator 'theme', but out of Faction. |
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724 
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Post by Arcaux on Apr 11, 2017 13:51:03 GMT
If PP want to keep up the charade that most non theme lists are as competitive as theme lists, then it won't happen. But honestly, I feel the better way would be to embrace it, make themes include other mercenaries and characters that suit the theme and maybe make a "Mercenary theme", one where you don't take many in faction troops but gain benefits for it, for factions who have a strong relationship with mercenaries. I mean. what charade? PP have already said they expect 90%+ of lists to be in theme at some point in the future.
That means PP knows that themes are stronger and that's what they want.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Apr 11, 2017 13:51:15 GMT
Double Post!
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Apr 11, 2017 14:28:51 GMT
Whether or not PP have stated this, it is certainly happening. And a generic theme that lets you take everything and grants a free solo/UA per 30p of Faction models would certainly help unscrew this entire theme mess.
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Post by jisidro on Apr 11, 2017 14:36:43 GMT
It would be the same as making standart Steamroller more than 75pts. ATM some faction are playing with 90+ points...
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Post by Azuresun on Apr 13, 2017 13:55:29 GMT
One possibility might be to allow ADR for non-theme lists.
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Post by chillychinaman on Apr 14, 2017 15:34:09 GMT
Could you elaborate on the ADR bit? I don't quite follow.
As for the issue of points, it's PP's own fault for not learning from their past mistakes from old themes like EE and MoS that discounted models thus effectively letting some people play over point limits.
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Post by pangurban on Apr 14, 2017 15:43:09 GMT
As for the issue of points, it's PP's own fault for not learning from their past mistakes from old themes like EE and MoS that discounted models thus effectively letting some people play over point limits. Remember Butcher2 with all the Doom Reavers? Plenty of extra points and definitely a strong list, but not over the top. Getting extras for adhering to a theme is not in and of itself a problem, whether it's extra rules or extra points. If the theme is restrictive enough, that can be balanced. There are several themes in Mk III nobody is touching, and they all provide extra models too: evidently these don't give enough extras to make up for the restrictions. These blanket statements of "playing over the point limits is bad" are silly. There's overwhelming evidence that's not an absolute truism. |
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Post by chillychinaman on Apr 15, 2017 3:26:52 GMT
In the end it boils down to efficiency. Point systems are supposed to impose a semblance of balance, however this is impossible when certain themes are borderline giving people free rules and points. There is a definite power tier for the released theme lists, and this trickle release isn't helping. If there was also some way to make generic and armies with mercs competitively viable it'd be awesome.
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Post by Azuresun on Apr 15, 2017 7:33:12 GMT
Could you elaborate on the ADR bit? I don't quite follow. Or sideboards or specialists or whatever the term is. Points you can switch in and out of your list after seeing the opponent's entry. And I agree, it feels like all the old mistakes are being repeated. Using themes to fix dud models instead of errata, playing a 90-pt list in a 75-pt game, and Vayl2-style themes that amount to "take the list you were going to play anyway, with pieces that are already good, and have some bonuses". |
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