Post by Armchair Warrior on Jun 1, 2018 9:23:06 GMT
So folks on the forum, including myself, have been down on Jaws since the Marauder and Juggernaut got taxed. I’ve been thinking quite a bit on how much this is going to change once Sorscha 0 is released, and Malakov 1 is legal to play in theme...
...both as free models.
I think the answer is “a lot.”
In the old world of cheap spammable 10-12 point jacks, you could suffer the alpha and still bring on the hurt. I regularly played Karchev or Butcher 3 with 7-9 quality heavies, and felt like I could take one on the chin but my opponent would regret having left me standing. There’s a bit more armor cracking now, and this list design suffers from the fact that you’re swapping in 1-2 berserker chassis to maintain the same jack profile.
HOWEVER...
In the new world order, a few important things have or will change.
The first is threat projection. This includes not only 2 free boundless charges, but also a SPD 6 beatstick piloted by Malakov. And these bad boys stack. So, before counting for caster buffs (I’m looking at you, Strakov 1), you’ve got a lead jack with a 12” - 13” threat range. Many of our casters bring a 2”-3” SPD buff, and with any of those you’re looking at the same thing...12”-14” threat ranges.
I think this completely changes the way our mainline Jaws casters — Butcher 3, Karchev, Harkevich, Strakhov 1, etc — are going to play. No longer are you designing lists around how to absorb the alpha. You can legitimately hope to deliver one.
The next is focus efficiency.. Let’s face it, our caster lineup is awesome but I ALWAYS feel focus strapped. And Jaws is about delivering a crap ton of jacks. In the old world, I brought 2 Forge Seer Battery Packs and counted myself lucky. Now? Your new free solos came with 8 extra focus.
The third is colossal affordability.. I always built my Jaws lists to maximize the number of beaters. With the notable exception of Ruin, I never spent more than 14 points on a Jaws Jack. But Jaws is about bringing on heavy metal beatstickery (except with Irusk 2...but whatever). I think our colossals have the highest natural P&S in the game (can someone think of a model with a POW 24 base stat?). The problem was they cost too much for what they brought. But now?
Vicky is pure gold, and Connie who was already good now got “just cheap enough” to consider over 3 heavies.
The fourth thing is that a bunch of other jacks got cheaper, and better.. The notable standout for me here is the Rager, but the Berserker now seems worthwhile (although I’m still not certain about how spammable it is and am not planning to go buy 4-5 more). The Spriggan finally got good again (SoulSamauri, no really, I’m really happy for us here).
The fifth is utility from the new free solos. Malakov’s Redline is going to dial *something* up to 11, and Fog of War is a damn useful spell in a lot of situations to keep your caster safe...and maybe just annoying enough to cause a ranged shot or two to steer wide of your jacks.
So what lists are you thinking about (or have you proxied successfully) with S0 and M1? Here’s the one I keep coming back to.
75/75
[Butcher 3] Kommander Zoktavir, The Butcher Unleashed [+22]
- Juggernaut [13]
- Ruin [17]
Kovnik Andrei Malakov [0(4)]
- Victor [34]
Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [0(4)]
- Marauder [11]
Ragman [4]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8]
- Koldun Kapitan Valachev [0(4)]
The basic idea is to field a crazy armor cracking list under Butcher 3 which maximizes the effect of the new juniors.
Malakov is piloting Victor to put his base SPD up to 6 (and so push him out 12” on turn 1), and to have a POW 25-POW 29 (adding Ragman and Aiyana) beater with a 13” threat. If the enemy doesn’t engage you, you get to take pot shots with a 5” fire template. If he does, well you’ve got Vicky on standby.
And if your opponent sent something in to take care of Vicky, there’s the Butcher. Yes, his threat range is predictable, but 14” (assuming no vengance) is a loooong way away to keep all of your models.
Ruin is an obvious battlegroup choice, and I reached for a Juggernaut over the Kodiak since with Boundless Charge you just don’t need to worry about pathfinder so much. With Vicky in the list for crowd control, I felt the vent steam was less important.
I like the Marauder as a cheap utility beater on Sorscha. Yes, the Rager is an option, but then I’m 1 point short of 75.
The double eliminators are in the list since...well...reasons. Awesome unit. Move along.
I wanted A&H in the list so that I could reliably drop Butcher into Cryx and Grymkin, and because I like the ranged ARM debuff. Ragman is Ragman.
Possible changes?
Option 1) Swap the A&H package out for the Widowmakers & Marksman, or a Beserker +Yuri. The Widowmaker boat would help against this army’s natural predator (weaponmaster spam). Yuri + Boundless Charge is fun (Vlad 1 experience confirms this). This only works if my other list covers incorporeal.
Option 2) Swap in Connie for Vicky, and convert the Marauder to a Rager. The covering fire templates and shield guard might be worth the loss of hitting power.
...both as free models.
I think the answer is “a lot.”
In the old world of cheap spammable 10-12 point jacks, you could suffer the alpha and still bring on the hurt. I regularly played Karchev or Butcher 3 with 7-9 quality heavies, and felt like I could take one on the chin but my opponent would regret having left me standing. There’s a bit more armor cracking now, and this list design suffers from the fact that you’re swapping in 1-2 berserker chassis to maintain the same jack profile.
HOWEVER...
In the new world order, a few important things have or will change.
The first is threat projection. This includes not only 2 free boundless charges, but also a SPD 6 beatstick piloted by Malakov. And these bad boys stack. So, before counting for caster buffs (I’m looking at you, Strakov 1), you’ve got a lead jack with a 12” - 13” threat range. Many of our casters bring a 2”-3” SPD buff, and with any of those you’re looking at the same thing...12”-14” threat ranges.
I think this completely changes the way our mainline Jaws casters — Butcher 3, Karchev, Harkevich, Strakhov 1, etc — are going to play. No longer are you designing lists around how to absorb the alpha. You can legitimately hope to deliver one.
The next is focus efficiency.. Let’s face it, our caster lineup is awesome but I ALWAYS feel focus strapped. And Jaws is about delivering a crap ton of jacks. In the old world, I brought 2 Forge Seer Battery Packs and counted myself lucky. Now? Your new free solos came with 8 extra focus.
The third is colossal affordability.. I always built my Jaws lists to maximize the number of beaters. With the notable exception of Ruin, I never spent more than 14 points on a Jaws Jack. But Jaws is about bringing on heavy metal beatstickery (except with Irusk 2...but whatever). I think our colossals have the highest natural P&S in the game (can someone think of a model with a POW 24 base stat?). The problem was they cost too much for what they brought. But now?
Vicky is pure gold, and Connie who was already good now got “just cheap enough” to consider over 3 heavies.
The fourth thing is that a bunch of other jacks got cheaper, and better.. The notable standout for me here is the Rager, but the Berserker now seems worthwhile (although I’m still not certain about how spammable it is and am not planning to go buy 4-5 more). The Spriggan finally got good again (SoulSamauri, no really, I’m really happy for us here).
The fifth is utility from the new free solos. Malakov’s Redline is going to dial *something* up to 11, and Fog of War is a damn useful spell in a lot of situations to keep your caster safe...and maybe just annoying enough to cause a ranged shot or two to steer wide of your jacks.
So what lists are you thinking about (or have you proxied successfully) with S0 and M1? Here’s the one I keep coming back to.
75/75
[Butcher 3] Kommander Zoktavir, The Butcher Unleashed [+22]
- Juggernaut [13]
- Ruin [17]
Kovnik Andrei Malakov [0(4)]
- Victor [34]
Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [0(4)]
- Marauder [11]
Ragman [4]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8]
- Koldun Kapitan Valachev [0(4)]
The basic idea is to field a crazy armor cracking list under Butcher 3 which maximizes the effect of the new juniors.
Malakov is piloting Victor to put his base SPD up to 6 (and so push him out 12” on turn 1), and to have a POW 25-POW 29 (adding Ragman and Aiyana) beater with a 13” threat. If the enemy doesn’t engage you, you get to take pot shots with a 5” fire template. If he does, well you’ve got Vicky on standby.
And if your opponent sent something in to take care of Vicky, there’s the Butcher. Yes, his threat range is predictable, but 14” (assuming no vengance) is a loooong way away to keep all of your models.
Ruin is an obvious battlegroup choice, and I reached for a Juggernaut over the Kodiak since with Boundless Charge you just don’t need to worry about pathfinder so much. With Vicky in the list for crowd control, I felt the vent steam was less important.
I like the Marauder as a cheap utility beater on Sorscha. Yes, the Rager is an option, but then I’m 1 point short of 75.
The double eliminators are in the list since...well...reasons. Awesome unit. Move along.
I wanted A&H in the list so that I could reliably drop Butcher into Cryx and Grymkin, and because I like the ranged ARM debuff. Ragman is Ragman.
Possible changes?
Option 1) Swap the A&H package out for the Widowmakers & Marksman, or a Beserker +Yuri. The Widowmaker boat would help against this army’s natural predator (weaponmaster spam). Yuri + Boundless Charge is fun (Vlad 1 experience confirms this). This only works if my other list covers incorporeal.
Option 2) Swap in Connie for Vicky, and convert the Marauder to a Rager. The covering fire templates and shield guard might be worth the loss of hitting power.
