kokaka
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 6
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Post by kokaka on May 30, 2018 6:51:19 GMT
Hi all.
So i have decided to go back to warmachine, or well, I have one game under my belt whom was in mk2. Anyway, the idea is to make some smaller list to play during brakes at my university and play a little at the local game club.
My recourses are rather limited and I have the following:
Lylyth1
Carnivean
Typhon
4x Shredders
A Shepherd
Anyssa Ryvaal
Max Raptors.
I want to get a Nephalim bolt thrower and will buy the Legion starter box för that.
Maybe a blackfrost shard as well.
With this in mind I made the following 25 point list.
Lylyth1
Typhon
Bolt Thrower
Min Raptors
Blackfrost Shard
Any ideas how it will play since I just put the models I like together.
Also, the next purchase will be the Chosen of Everblight since they are one of the best minis I have seen and if you have some ideas what go well with them feel free to tell me 😊
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Post by snotling on May 30, 2018 10:49:14 GMT
Id go with full raptors instead of the bfs, parasite is enough of a damage fix. Try to grt some shepperds/forsaken in, lylyth needs the fury management.
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kokaka
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 6
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Post by kokaka on May 30, 2018 12:04:35 GMT
Id go with full raptors instead of the bfs, parasite is enough of a damage fix. Try to grt some shepperds/forsaken in, lylyth needs the fury management. Then it is: Lylyth1 Typhon Nephalin Bolt Thrower Max Raptor Shepherd Shepherd Any ideas on how to stratgise with a list like this? I will most likley play against Cygnar and maybe Cryx |
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288 
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Post by whydak on May 30, 2018 12:20:17 GMT
Id go with full raptors instead of the bfs, parasite is enough of a damage fix. Try to grt some shepperds/forsaken in, lylyth needs the fury management. Then it is: Lylyth1 Typhon Nephalin Bolt Thrower Max Raptor Shepherd Shepherd Any ideas on how to stratgise with a list like this? I will most likley play against Cygnar and maybe Cryx List looks fine. You list is good at shooting and have serious caster kill threat. If opponnent don't shoot better you should keep distance and try to weaken their army at distance. At begging of each turn you should ask yourself if there is CK possible. With Lylyth feat she can boost to hit enemy caster with witch mark- 4 dice to hit when needed. After that every hit will hurt. Try to keep Typhon safe. He is important piece which can kill most of the heavies or a lot of infantry with sprays. Remember you have pursuit, it can help you to retreat with one of the battle group model at the cost of 1 free strike. Or walk closer when opponent forgets about this option. EDIT: I played simmilar concept of the list at 50p tournament. Report is in Polish but you can take quick glance at pictures to have general overivew. warmachina.com.pl/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5922&start=70#p164557 |
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kokaka
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 6
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Post by kokaka on May 30, 2018 12:35:15 GMT
Thanks for the tips. Time to get them brushes up! |
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Post by ForEver_Blight on May 30, 2018 12:40:05 GMT
I will most likley play against Cygnar and maybe Cryx ^ this makes me feel bad... You're going to have a difficult time with those two factions unfortunately (in the long term). But that's not a legion issue, it's an "everyone but Cygnar and Cryx" issue.
Vs. Cygnar
Use terrain and stealth as much as you can. But you have to accept you will lose models before they can cross the field. Multiwound models like Raptors still might not survive (Charger with 2 fully boosted pow 12s kills 2 raptors a turn) so be aware and try to dance around their threat ranges. We (legion) usually don't have as long range guns but we move faster.
Getting into engagement with a run sounds meaningless. But a majority of Cygnar has a terrible time clearing models and it cause a lot of order of activation headaches.
[Everything listed below is from a perspective of full point games. Small point games should not be played in theme and should avoid some, if not most, of these issues]
Vs. Cryx I don't really know what to do anymore... Black industries means shooting them is near meaningless Infantry swarm/recursion means you need a large quantity of attacks Incorporeal means a Naga nightlurker is nearly always required they are just about as fast as us their casters are extremely powerful to make up for the cheaper model downfalls. |
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kokaka
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 6
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Post by kokaka on May 30, 2018 14:10:20 GMT
I will most likley play against Cygnar and maybe Cryx ^ this makes me feel bad... You're going to have a difficult time with those two factions unfortunately (in the long term). But that's not a legion issue, it's an "everyone but Cygnar and Cryx" issue.
Vs. Cygnar
Use terrain and stealth as much as you can. But you have to accept you will lose models before they can cross the field. Multiwound models like Raptors still might not survive (Charger with 2 fully boosted pow 12s kills 2 raptors a turn) so be aware and try to dance around their threat ranges. We (legion) usually don't have as long range guns but we move faster.
Getting into engagement with a run sounds meaningless. But a majority of Cygnar has a terrible time clearing models and it cause a lot of order of activation headaches.
[Everything listed below is from a perspective of full point games. Small point games should not be played in theme and should avoid some, if not most, of these issues]
Vs. Cryx I don't really know what to do anymore... Black industries means shooting them is near meaningless Infantry swarm/recursion means you need a large quantity of attacks Incorporeal means a Naga nightlurker is nearly always required they are just about as fast as us their casters are extremely powerful to make up for the cheaper model downfalls. Do you have any ideas on how to counter cygnar in the future? Im planning on later expanding into Kallus 2 with some Chosen of Everblight to get a hardhitting, fast unit. Maybe that will work? |
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Post by ForEver_Blight on May 30, 2018 14:31:42 GMT
Do you have any ideas on how to counter cygnar in the future? Im planning on later expanding into Kallus 2 with some Chosen of Everblight to get a hardhitting, fast unit. Maybe that will work? That all depends on how the chosen turn out. Still eagerly awaiting the card release...
Kallus 2 doesn't really have a way to protect anything. He does have a threat range extension feat but I still have problems getting things set on fire to start with. I don't own croak raiders and don't really want to pay $65 for a box.
So if we look at threat range math -- Chosen Spd 7 +3 charge + 3 feat + 2 reach = 15" charge threat [IF you get the target set on fire]
Cygnar defender RNG 16" (Pow 15) SPD 5 = 21" threat. Not including snipe, TK, or any other threat extenders.
Assuming Chosen will be released with ARM 16 you're going to have a bad day. If you take a blightbringer you have a slightly less bad day.
I want to like Kallus 2 but he has no delivery for (mass) infantry and a mostly defunct feat that I have not learned a good way to trigger properly without taking an ArchAngel.
If you want a lot of strength out of Kallus 2 play him for Overrun. Something as simplistic as a stinger can assault charge an infantry model to hit/kill and proc a full spd walk on another warbeast in the battle group. So for instance Zuriel -- overrun 6 + spd 6 + 3 charge + 2 reach + 3 feat = 20"
So Zuriel could entirely hide behind a forest, walk through it thanks to overrun, and get LOS to charge w/e.
Overrun also allows for a walk backwards after a kill. So it provides both threat range and safety. I feel it's far more powerful than trying to leverage an infantry build. But that doesn't mean I have given up on an infantry swarm Kallus 2.
Just my experience as of late. I'm still testing and learning as much as you or anyone else.
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kokaka
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 6
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Post by kokaka on May 30, 2018 14:58:36 GMT
Do you have any ideas on how to counter cygnar in the future? Im planning on later expanding into Kallus 2 with some Chosen of Everblight to get a hardhitting, fast unit. Maybe that will work? That all depends on how the chosen turn out. Still eagerly awaiting the card release...
Kallus 2 doesn't really have a way to protect anything. He does have a threat range extension feat but I still have problems getting things set on fire to start with. I don't own croak raiders and don't really want to pay $65 for a box.
So if we look at threat range math -- Chosen Spd 7 +3 charge + 3 feat + 2 reach = 15" charge threat [IF you get the target set on fire]
Cygnar defender RNG 16" (Pow 15) SPD 5 = 21" threat. Not including snipe, TK, or any other threat extenders.
Assuming Chosen will be released with ARM 16 you're going to have a bad day. If you take a blightbringer you have a slightly less bad day.
I want to like Kallus 2 but he has no delivery for (mass) infantry and a mostly defunct feat that I have not learned a good way to trigger properly without taking an ArchAngel.
If you want a lot of strength out of Kallus 2 play him for Overrun. Something as simplistic as a stinger can assault charge an infantry model to hit/kill and proc a full spd walk on another warbeast in the battle group. So for instance Zuriel -- overrun 6 + spd 6 + 3 charge + 2 reach + 3 feat = 20"
So Zuriel could entirely hide behind a forest, walk through it thanks to overrun, and get LOS to charge w/e.
Overrun also allows for a walk backwards after a kill. So it provides both threat range and safety. I feel it's far more powerful than trying to leverage an infantry build. But that doesn't mean I have given up on an infantry swarm Kallus 2.
Just my experience as of late. I'm still testing and learning as much as you or anyone else.
I see, maybe Kallus 2 is a little hard for beginners. Then what are some strategies or units to counter cygnar? |
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Post by jojobrunnix on May 30, 2018 16:45:33 GMT
As of late my experience with cycnar is that they dont play very well into box/arm spamm
granted our local guy doesnt own trenchers, so im not sure how good siege 2 would be, but most of the other casters/list struggle to put down 3 Units of ogrund with a bb behind them. Even Nemo 3, but he is still a hard matchup.
just keep running stuff into their face, most shooting cycnar list loose a lot of steam after their feats.
about cryx: We have Ammok now, and Golab if we want to doublefiretruck them, chosen and other ogrun play well into them as well.
I know "just play Pt" cant be the answer to all the problems we face but since you plan to pick up the chosen anyway i think you should be able to handly these guys
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Post by chillychinaman on May 30, 2018 18:32:15 GMT
This might be a longer term purchase depending on your budget, but I see Typhon, a ton of shredders, and soon to be Chosen, and it screams to me Thags2.
As for the Cygnar match-up, against shooting, I hear that Farrow Valkyries from Minions is pretty good protection. You could sub them for Anyssa. As for something like Trenchers, I feel like finding a way to safely deliver Typhon or getting your hands on a Throne would be great as a more expensive option.
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kokaka
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 6
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Post by kokaka on Jun 6, 2018 13:01:36 GMT
This might be a longer term purchase depending on your budget, but I see Typhon, a ton of shredders, and soon to be Chosen, and it screams to me Thags2. As for the Cygnar match-up, against shooting, I hear that Farrow Valkyries from Minions is pretty good protection. You could sub them for Anyssa. As for something like Trenchers, I feel like finding a way to safely deliver Typhon or getting your hands on a Throne would be great as a more expensive option. Thanks. Yes Thags 2 will be bought, since I like both the models and Raeks and I hear that they go well with him. As for the Cygnar menance. Does anyone have experience against them when Running Lylyth1 and Strider Scouts? They will be stealthed and with parasite up they can make some damage. Also, what about combining them with the BFS to give them in essence POW 15 Bows, hitting on 4d6 on Lylyths feat? |
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 6, 2018 13:19:47 GMT
Thanks. Yes Thags 2 will be bought, since I like both the models and Raeks and I hear that they go well with him. As for the Cygnar menance. Does anyone have experience against them when Running Lylyth1 and Strider Scouts? They will be stealthed and with parasite up they can make some damage. Also, what about combining them with the BFS to give them in essence POW 15 Bows, hitting on 4d6 on Lylyths feat? I don't want to deter you. But the big-picture problem with that scenario is that Strider Scouts and Black Frost Shard are not available in the same themes.
But the idea is correct. Against average armor 18 you're doing some good work. Even more so against Cygnar light warjacks. So it's not a bad plan at all. I might suggest bringing the Scout UA for Repo 3" and the ability to ignore concealment and cover. Scouts sitting at 12" aren't in walk+shoot range because of stealth, but you are in range for them to run to you. having that 3" might just make you all that much safe.
Lylyth's feat can also help mitigate the terribly unlucky miss for the all important Kiss spell.
So all in all, not a bad plan. In a small game you might have quite the advantage staying at range leveraging stealth. But be aware there are casters in Cygnar, like Kara Sloan, who have abilities to ignore stealth.
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Jun 6, 2018 13:26:49 GMT
This might be a longer term purchase depending on your budget, but I see Typhon, a ton of shredders, and soon to be Chosen, and it screams to me Thags2. As for the Cygnar match-up, against shooting, I hear that Farrow Valkyries from Minions is pretty good protection. You could sub them for Anyssa. As for something like Trenchers, I feel like finding a way to safely deliver Typhon or getting your hands on a Throne would be great as a more expensive option. Thanks. Yes Thags 2 will be bought, since I like both the models and Raeks and I hear that they go well with him. As for the Cygnar menance. Does anyone have experience against them when Running Lylyth1 and Strider Scouts? They will be stealthed and with parasite up they can make some damage. Also, what about combining them with the BFS to give them in essence POW 15 Bows, hitting on 4d6 on Lylyths feat? Lylyth1 is awesome with Strider Scouts. They can kill Trenchers and other low arm infantry without problems. Issue is they have problems with higher armor targets. Rest of the list should be built with this in mind. Neraphs are cool with her. If you need to buy them I wouldn't rush. If you plan to play in themes, they are only avaliable in ravens of war. This theme is full of infantry removal and lacks killing power. Becouse of that I was usually taking only raptors and strider deatstalkers as shooting warrior models. If you don't mind it, sure. They will find use from time to time. Otherways I would not put high priority on them. If you have them, sure - let's go  |
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Post by chillychinaman on Jun 6, 2018 16:03:53 GMT
Just want to say, don't think you're immune to shooting even with stealth. Cygnar has a fair amount of ways of ignoring or bypassing it like Truesight and E-Leaps. As an alternative to Striders in theme, you could try Archers, especially with the Sorceress against infantry for her auto-damage ability. You lose out on beasts but, 1) Thags2 is a powerhouse and basically another beast as long as you protect him, 2) he can bring Typhon who's a beast, and Azrael and Zuriel are no slouches either. |
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