Legion’s Blight(plight)

I'm glad to see a positive comment regarding my perpetuation of playing out of theme lists. Thank you Chilly. (It's happened a few times here recently. People don't seem to think I'm totally crazy anymore)


"Legion's problems" is a very vague idea to explore. Each person is going to have their own perspective on that issue. For example Twity seems to like themes and serves out positive reinforcement when the conversations goes south. Where as Lanz feels we have not gotten compensated for all that we lost in the edition change. (Generalizations. Forgive me if I have presumed too much)

My perspective, as already stated, is that I find no real incentive to play in theme. I feel that they are poorly designed and trying to play an optimized list you stuff in duplicates of certain models just to hit the quota. Instead of finding interesting or powerful combinations that could be there somewhere. I don't want to buy double thrones just to play Rhyas. I don't want to buy 5 Ravagores to play Lylyth 2 (but some people have that left over from MK2). I don't want to buy double Grotesques and double Raptors to play in Ravens.

That's not just me griping. I've been spending a fair amount of time and attention going over "why" JVM and Chris Orr play what they do in their tournament lists. I don't have a direct link to them or their reasoning. But the lists are distinctly spam-like in construction. Granted, Thagrosh 1 CotD does seem to have a clear spread of models. But come on, people are still playing 4 or 5 Neraphs with Fyanna 2.

This isn't uncommon. Most themes will give power to certain model selections. It is then more optimal to pick that model and take as many as possible. However Legion isn't spamming models that get good bonuses in these cases. They are spamming what is need to get free points. The bonuses from the actual theme are rarely factored in. So we are "playing down" because other themes give viable bonuses to better models that people actually want to take.

As much as Circle hates Devourer's Host I think its a decently designed theme. Yes the models included need help but the overall design is there. It's a Tharn theme. You get free tharn solo models by taking Tharn units. Tharn models then contribute to getting heart tokens to go on said models. Snacking isn't the most useful but isn't terrible. It just makes sense.

I still think the best designed theme I've ever put on the table is Legion of Steel. It's not super powerful. It has just enough options to fill out a list with bonus models and it plays well. The downside is there are so few models for the theme...

Primal terrors is actually our only theme designed in the same way. As Chilly said our bonuses, point calculation, and model choices just don't line up to make powerful themes. CotD could be extremely fun and desirable if you got free models based on infantry units taken. If it gave bonuses to the infantry taken (advance move, extra speed, anything). It would also be powerful if we actually got a reliable 3rd benefit.

So, yes, in a way my perspective leads to theme being our worse quality as a faction. I would like to see better costs/rules on certain models that just are never the "good" choice in list building. But as it stands currently I myself am not putting much faith on that changing anytime soon.

I will not be quitting legion but it's just getting to the point it's too much work to be successful with Legion. I still win, I can still put up a good game. But if I have a migraine after a casual game and am frustrated beyond reason. I'm not doing myself or anyone else any favors. I want to start trying the tournament lists to see if the really do just make my life easier. But then I'll feel dirty for netdecking.

Themes are definitely a part of the problem with legion. As others have said this will be somewhat better once all of PT is released. A few minor changes to Cotd and Ravens would really change that. It's ridiculous that outside of a couple niche situations you'd never take a Blightbringer in theme outside of PT.
I gave up on always trying to be in theme last year some time and try to put together strong lists outside of theme that I want to play. Typhon, Hellmouths, and Deathstalkers were the catalyst for this mostly. These are a few of our strongest pieces in the faction but they can never really be taken together and can be a good reason for justifying playing out of theme. I'll never advocate playing out of theme just to "stick it to the man" and really SUSS out but there are certainly list types that can easily justify the loss of free points to do so. I've had some good success with some lists outside of theme but I've always had a game plan for how the list will work and why it is worth playing out of theme.
In the end though it's sad that we have to go to such ends in order to get the interactions we want in the faction.

Wasn't this the reason that Oracles was nerfed last year?  People were getting mad because Legion could load up their lists with beasts and get 4 support models (2 S&H and 2 whatever) for free?

Completely unwarranted and PP misreading the state of the Legion meta at the time. Because everyone and their mom was bringing Fyanna 2 or Abby 2 in oracles as it was our only viable theme at the time meant to PP that OOA = OP. Silly and premature. In reality this was just Legion players feeling forced into playing oracles with locks that made the most of the theme in order to keep up with other faction's free points.