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Post by correlion on Apr 26, 2018 9:53:25 GMT
3d pow 14 with arcing fire. why not?
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Apr 26, 2018 13:05:36 GMT
mostly because it lacks the stopping power needed to deal with an armored korps list. Everything is ARM 20-23, most of it steady. Artillery pieces probably won't be terribly useful.
Harbinger*, Amon**, or Sevvy 2* are problably the right casters to deal with it, but all of them want exemplars for the blessed jacks.
* Rebuke is very, VERY mean to shocktroopers and these two have it.
** See the vanquisher thing above. If you can charge and thresh, you can score 3 or 4 shocktroopers with extremely high reliability.
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Post by correlion on Apr 26, 2018 13:15:31 GMT
mostly because it lacks the stopping power needed to deal with an armored korps list. Everything is ARM 20-23, most of it steady. Artillery pieces probably won't be terribly useful. Harbinger*, Amon**, or Sevvy 2* are problably the right casters to deal with it, but all of them want exemplars for the blessed jacks. * Rebuke is very, VERY mean to shocktroopers and these two have it. ** See the vanquisher thing above. If you can charge and thresh, you can score 3 or 4 shocktroopers with extremely high reliability. Sev2 has hex blast, so no need for blessed Reznik2 has spellpiercer, flash is weak, Lamentation, and boundless charge - again no need for exemplars theme
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Apr 26, 2018 13:19:34 GMT
It'll blast off rebuke(I think) and consume your free A2A you can bounce out to Irusk. Passively ignoring a spell is better as it requires no input and has no form of counterplay.
This is a major part of why I make warjack only lists in Exemplar Interdiction. We need the blessed buff to move to CM, and for EI to actually buff exemplars.
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Post by correlion on Apr 26, 2018 13:23:22 GMT
hex blast only removes enemy upkeeps and animi
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Post by wasted79 on Apr 30, 2018 2:28:21 GMT
Just a little piss off now with the increase of Marauder and Juggernaut (10to11, 12to13 pts)
Juggernaut and Crusader are pretty similar IMO
Augmented by choir they're on par But add a few jacks and you're maximise the choir cost effiency. Juggernauts don't have any support unit or solo in-faction.
My point: 3×crusader+choir=34pts 3xjuggernaut=39pts now
Anyway, i don't expect to get support from another faction players lol
But i hope it isn't a new tendency to increase the value of jacks in all factions.
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Post by correlion on Apr 30, 2018 6:27:06 GMT
You now also have boundless charge on stick AND imo critical freeze is better than crit fire AND jugger has more boxes.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Apr 30, 2018 10:52:26 GMT
Juggernaut and Crusader are pretty similar IMO MAT 6 misses more often than MAT 7. It's the MAT that makes the biggest difference, it makes the difference between boosting to hit or not. MAT 7 can reliably hit DEF 13 and hit DEF 14 about 50% of the time MAT 6 can reliably hit DEF 12 and hit DEF 13 about 50% of the time. There are a lot of DEF 13+ models out there and while the crusader can hit them, it'll often have to boost to hit and when it does, that limits the number of attacks that it can make. The Juggernaut only really has to boost for high value DEF 13 targets and DEF 14+, making it more focus efficient in general. Wait until you see a Dervish, those things make Crusaders look like a terrible choice.
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Post by wasted79 on Apr 30, 2018 12:07:45 GMT
I mean equal with the buff of choir, i never meant juggernaut should cost 10. POM you get choir&vassal, with khador the only close to a support is the forge seer that can lend a focus for a 4pts solo lol
My point is that raising the low end options available tend players to field less but more specialised jacks. 3rd edition have made changes to see more jacks fielded.
Ok agreed they lessened the cost of many others so more overall choices.
And agreed that mat&rat stats are more valuable with less fixers around
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Post by correlion on Apr 30, 2018 12:12:06 GMT
I mean equal with the buff of choir, i never meant juggernaut should cost 10. POM you get choir&vassal, with khador the only close to a support is the forge seer that can lend a focus for a 4pts solo lol My point is that raising the low end options available tend players to field less but more specialised jacks. 3rd edition have made changes to see more jacks fielded. Ok agreed they lessened the cost of many others so more overall choices. And agreed that mat&rat stats are more valuable with less fixers around Jugger has 19 pow and 20 arm. Even with choir you have more boxes and mat )
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Post by wasted79 on Apr 30, 2018 12:17:37 GMT
With choir you get pow 20 over 19 to compensate Anyway, you're the next faction to get CID, right? Things gonna change a bit too More exemplar stuff?
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Apr 30, 2018 15:32:20 GMT
As mentioned, the price point is acceptable because us Menites need to bring Choir if we want the chance to hit as hard/slightly harder than a Juggy with casters that don't already have damage buffs. The Choir tax is still a thing. We also don't have as many easily obtained speed boosts/threat extensions like Khador has, especially if Sorscha0 stays the way she ended CID.
And yes, PP is trying to encourage you to take more than just Marauders and Juggies. When there are chassis that don't see play outside niche lists, there is an inherent problem with the power or price of these other jacks.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Apr 30, 2018 16:35:14 GMT
Anyway, you're the next faction to get CID, right? Things gonna change a bit too More exemplar stuff? I am looking forward to it (it starts on Wednesday) and it is indeed Exemplars. Like most CID's that affect the factions I play, it's got me painting models I own but have never used because they're unpainted. I'm actually thinking of magnetising my Vengers ready for painting so I can use them when the rules finally release (assuming they're on CID).
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