mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Apr 12, 2018 13:14:11 GMT
I'll start with a hat tip to@SundayTaco for the inspiration. He pointed out that befuddle will trigger counter-charge on Agata in his thread on a functional and fun Kriel company list, if you haven't read it, go do that. I read that and thought, "what's cooler than one model that gets to counter-charge a model of my choice during my turn? Two models doing it!" This just came from that idea. It's a first pass, and would benefit from more high def models, but being able to keep Valka and Agata safer and then counter charge them on a befuddled model seems like a great plan. Even better is when they charge in first, then it gets befuddled away and they counter-charge it in the back! I suspect these two can wreck some, if not most, heavies doing this, but I don't have time to run the math right now.
Edit: I really wanted to put the bone grinders in but couldn't work the points with the battle group and free solos. Feel especially free to make suggestions to improve that.
War Room Army
Trollblood - Calandra counter charge trigger
Theme: Storm of the North
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Calandra Truthsayer, Oracle of the Glimmerwood - WB: +27
- Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0
- Troll Bouncer - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
- Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Ice Troll - PC: 9
Agata, Queen of Carnage - PC: 5
Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0
Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North - PC: 0
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6
- Northkin Elder - PC: 3
Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10
Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10
Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16
- Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 5
- Trollkin Sorcerer - PC: 3
Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7
THEME: Storm of the North
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GENERATED : 04/12/2018 08:06:42
BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21
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Post by ninjastars on Apr 12, 2018 17:49:46 GMT
Wow, I think you’re right, unlike rampaged, you don’t take control of the model being moved when you use befuddle. That also means befuddle can work on inscrutable models. Despoiler is screwed!
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Apr 12, 2018 18:04:33 GMT
That befuddle doesn't take control has been known before, but, to the best of my knowledge, SundayTaco was the first to come up with the counter-charge wrinkle.
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Post by sundaytaco on Apr 12, 2018 19:17:39 GMT
Thanks for the shoutout. I cant take credit for it but i think it could really trick up some opponents! I like the look of your list. Im jammin so hard on calandra right now. Her feat is bananas
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Apr 12, 2018 23:31:02 GMT
A buddy of mine pointed out that you could get more utility out of having Brun & Lug than Agata, since Lug has counter-charge AND return, so you can keep him safer to try and do it again next round. I'm not rebuilding the list now, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
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Post by GrumpyBear on Apr 13, 2018 12:08:33 GMT
What about using befuddle to rocket lug 7 inches forward before activation? Then he activates and head's of for even more grizzly carnage?
It would be pretty easy to engineer as well.
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Post by cayterpius on Apr 13, 2018 12:35:33 GMT
You'd need him to stay within Brun's control range ...
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Post by sundaytaco on Apr 13, 2018 14:53:08 GMT
brun and lug is 16 points though :[ i like agata's cheapness. her high def in melee and riposte synergizes really well with starcrossed
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Apr 13, 2018 17:29:50 GMT
I agree. In Storm I think you could wreck heavies with 11 points in solos, but Lug will wreck a lot more durable faces. They cover different roles.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513 
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Post by joedj on Apr 13, 2018 23:29:37 GMT
It's fun, but having done the Befuddle thing with Calandra and Valka for some time now, I don't find it particularly devastating. Surprising to an opponent, enough to cause a rules check, deathclock tech?  . Usually the thing(s) I'm Befuddling is something valuable enough that I'm sending in a model with enough attacks to eliminate it without Valka's help (ex. Team Bears, Slag, Champs). I hadn't thought of Brun/Lug, or Agata, no benefit from SotN/NK Elder, my current Calandra1 list. Could be fun to try though! My Calandra list also has Bone Grinders, though I've yet to Befuddle a warbeast into their (4d6 damage GW + remove Fury) clutches! |
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Post by grabsnikk on Apr 14, 2018 3:07:23 GMT
One thing to note is that Befuddle can be used to Advance an opponent's Battle Engine as the Massive rule does not prevent this.
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Post by GrumpyBear on Apr 14, 2018 5:48:42 GMT
Well the idea here is not that you are getting counter charge damage. That's cute, but the real money is you can put Valka or Brun 7 inches further up then where they started. Before they even activate. Valka could be charging 16 inches down the table with this combo, 19 if he got vengeance. That has to be worth something!
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Apr 14, 2018 22:57:00 GMT
Honestly, I think both before and after have value. If you want to maximize damage on a hard target,Valka goes first. If you want to slingshot him for crazy threat, Calandra goes first. And yeah, befuddle works on battle engines, that made my Khador buddy sad when his gun carriage that had got behind my lines but carefully or of threat of my beasts suddenly decided to come forward and look for cake. What it found was a raged Mauler, and a quick death.
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Post by magonus on Apr 14, 2018 23:55:05 GMT
If you do want to swap Agata for Brunch & Lug, just drop the Sorcerer and one unit of Bears. Fell Caller can swap for min Bone Grinders since hitting isn't really a problem with Calandra.
War Room Army
Trollblood - New Army
Theme: Storm of the North
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Calandra Truthsayer, Oracle of the Glimmerwood - WB: +27
- Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0
- Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19)
- Ice Troll - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
- Troll Bouncer - PC: 9
Brun Cragback - Cragback & Lug: 16
- Lug
Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North - PC: 0
Farrow Bone Grinders - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6
Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10
Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7
Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16
- Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 5
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Apr 15, 2018 1:06:52 GMT
But I wanted to put five bears on the table!
All kidding aside, that seems like it might be a good plan. I field the fell caller more for pathfinder access than hit buffing, but the bone grinders are probably worth the sacrifice. I may just try that list.
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. Usually the thing(s) I'm Befuddling is something valuable enough that I'm sending in a model with enough attacks to eliminate it without Valka's help (ex. Team Bears, Slag, Champs). 