Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 7, 2017 13:56:07 GMT
So, with there being a sort of AMA about the Banes in a few weeks, I thought we could start gathering some ideas on what we would like to use as input, or things we could ask. How the Banes will ultimately change is of course dependant on the role PP wants to see them in.
I'll start:
As seen with Goreshade 2, Apparition fixes a lot of the Banes' problems, as such I expect the Bane theme will give a single unit Apparition per turn, similar to the Legion theme.
Tartarus can stay as he is, but then he needs to be cheaper, ideally about 6 points, so people would actually want to take him when he's not, presumably, free in theme.
Knights should probably hit slightly harder to make them worth wile to take. I would actually like to give them a slightly different role other than just damage though. Many models in the game that wield a pole-arm get Set Defense from it. I think this would make the Knights an attractive option, you can make them relatively durable (Darragh, new Wraith Engine, Death Ward) and they would be effective DEF 14 against charges. It would tie in nicely with Vengeance as well, because they will be much harder to kill in melee, so it's more likely that your opponent will only be able to kill 1-2, leaving him open to a brutal counter-attack. Many people would also like Wall of Steel, though of course, they can't have both.
Warriors are mostly fine I think, but their UA can still use some work. Technically speaking, it's priced fairly, you pay 1.7 points for the standard, as with any other Bane, and 4.3 for the Officer, who has +1 MAT, an extra attack, 2 useful abilities and a decent mini-feat. The problem is that when your opponent inevitably kills the DEF 12, ARM 15, 5 HP model, you lose everything except Rise. Perhaps just losing the mini-feat and making it cost 4 would make it an easier pill to swallow. Maybe leave them as-is but make it cost 5, or maybe simply getting it for free in theme will be enough. I've heard people say this would be a great UA for Bane Knights before, so perhaps it would be cool to just leave it as it is, but make it similar to the Skarlock Commander and let it attach to any small-based Bane unit. It would be pretty cool if Bane Knights could bring their own source of Dark Shroud.
Then on to Bane Riders, which probably need the most help. They were pretty cool in MK2, but then had to lose 3" threat for some reason, making them the slowest cavalry in the game. Now, sadly, I don't see PP giving them back 2" range, because they're "only" using swords, I also don't see them making them faster, because they're still banes, so slow, although they made an exception with Storm Lances compared to Stormblade Infantry, so maybe. Built-in Apparation would be nice, but unlikely to happen if it's going to be a theme benefit like I think. So maybe making them natively hit like trucks; make them POW 15, maybe even 16 base + Brutal Charge, I think that would really serve to set them aside from Knights and keeps in line with the "Banes are slow but hard hitting". Right now, they are just slow and hit moderately hard (but not hard enough for the investment, especially since you can only get about 3 on heavy).
Many people have also been asking to do something interesting with Curse. It's unlikely they will give it a blanket speed increase again, because Curse exists on other models as well. But it would be nice if we got a special Bane Curse or something and each Leader had a different version of it: for instance, one could increase speed, another accuracy, another power.
I would be interested to see if this is in line with what PP thinks of Banes themselves, and if not, ask them how they see it. Maybe they'll come up with a few things before the talk starts, to get us going.
I'll start:
As seen with Goreshade 2, Apparition fixes a lot of the Banes' problems, as such I expect the Bane theme will give a single unit Apparition per turn, similar to the Legion theme.
Tartarus can stay as he is, but then he needs to be cheaper, ideally about 6 points, so people would actually want to take him when he's not, presumably, free in theme.
Knights should probably hit slightly harder to make them worth wile to take. I would actually like to give them a slightly different role other than just damage though. Many models in the game that wield a pole-arm get Set Defense from it. I think this would make the Knights an attractive option, you can make them relatively durable (Darragh, new Wraith Engine, Death Ward) and they would be effective DEF 14 against charges. It would tie in nicely with Vengeance as well, because they will be much harder to kill in melee, so it's more likely that your opponent will only be able to kill 1-2, leaving him open to a brutal counter-attack. Many people would also like Wall of Steel, though of course, they can't have both.
Warriors are mostly fine I think, but their UA can still use some work. Technically speaking, it's priced fairly, you pay 1.7 points for the standard, as with any other Bane, and 4.3 for the Officer, who has +1 MAT, an extra attack, 2 useful abilities and a decent mini-feat. The problem is that when your opponent inevitably kills the DEF 12, ARM 15, 5 HP model, you lose everything except Rise. Perhaps just losing the mini-feat and making it cost 4 would make it an easier pill to swallow. Maybe leave them as-is but make it cost 5, or maybe simply getting it for free in theme will be enough. I've heard people say this would be a great UA for Bane Knights before, so perhaps it would be cool to just leave it as it is, but make it similar to the Skarlock Commander and let it attach to any small-based Bane unit. It would be pretty cool if Bane Knights could bring their own source of Dark Shroud.
Then on to Bane Riders, which probably need the most help. They were pretty cool in MK2, but then had to lose 3" threat for some reason, making them the slowest cavalry in the game. Now, sadly, I don't see PP giving them back 2" range, because they're "only" using swords, I also don't see them making them faster, because they're still banes, so slow, although they made an exception with Storm Lances compared to Stormblade Infantry, so maybe. Built-in Apparation would be nice, but unlikely to happen if it's going to be a theme benefit like I think. So maybe making them natively hit like trucks; make them POW 15, maybe even 16 base + Brutal Charge, I think that would really serve to set them aside from Knights and keeps in line with the "Banes are slow but hard hitting". Right now, they are just slow and hit moderately hard (but not hard enough for the investment, especially since you can only get about 3 on heavy).
Many people have also been asking to do something interesting with Curse. It's unlikely they will give it a blanket speed increase again, because Curse exists on other models as well. But it would be nice if we got a special Bane Curse or something and each Leader had a different version of it: for instance, one could increase speed, another accuracy, another power.
I would be interested to see if this is in line with what PP thinks of Banes themselves, and if not, ask them how they see it. Maybe they'll come up with a few things before the talk starts, to get us going.