Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 26, 2018 16:20:35 GMT
Sooo I got an email that my dead meta store owner has "on good authority" that WM/H players will be in the store this week in number.
I thus opened Warroom and got to wonky theory crafting.
[WARNING: The below discussion will involve deliberately out-of-theme lists. It will also give Zero consideration to pairings or tournament results. Please continue with those expectations]
Absylonia 1, Terror of Everblight
- Archangel
- Typhon
- Ravagore
- Carnivean
- Bloodseer
Forsaken
Shepherd
Shepherd
Spell Martyr
This is the clearly not optimal "jank" list. this is where things started. The idea is based on the fact that Refuge specifically says "hit an enemy model with AN attack". It does not specify melee. So Typhon can Fly up at speed 7, spray three times, they walk away 7. The Bloodseer is there to project the AA animus for Typhon, Assaulting+refuge carnivean, and the Ravagore. This I think would be Fun, but clearly frustrating for the opponent. So I would want to refine the idea and yes, make it more optimal to not be so clearly... garbled.
Absylonia 1
- Archangel
- Proteus
- Ravagore
- Carnivean
- Blightwasps
Forsaken (free)
Forsaken (free)
Sorc & Helion (free)
Farrow Valkryies
This is more reliant on a single model; Proteus. With a 13 inch charge, 4" drag, and 5" refuge walk. He should be able to drag models into range of the AA or Abby for the +2 fire damage. Then the Ravagore and AA can safely put their shots to good use. Proteus can also buy additional drag attacks to clump more than one heavy together and walk away. Perfect for Blightburst, scather, and maybe the blast damage can even add 1 or 2 points if you're lucky.
However, that is quite reliant on Proteus. I'm afraid someone (maybe not on the first encounter) will figure that out and deny him quite well. So, the carnivean can pull multiple duties depending on the situation. IF the carnivean can hit something with his assault he could refuge further in. SG, blightburst, and rapid healing could make him just the most obnoxious to remove beast in the game. "Yes, please hit my Khador armor value that hurts you and heals himself each time. Go ahead. Oh and you're not allowed to spend focus. Have fun." But that would sort of rely on good positioning and being able to get Blightburst on the target that the Carnivean refuged to engage.
The Blightwasps are in there since dropping Typhon I didn't feel I had infantry clear and there just wasnt enough fire attacks turn-by-turn to need the Bloodseer. Wild Aggression would give a pretty good to-hit swing. With killing spree they should just get enough work done to take care on any typical combined-arms amount of infantry.
Valkryies are the because shield guard vengeance with a chance for crit knockdown is just too fun to pass up. I could use feat to clean up ranged damage if enough happened. But I'd rather just shift the hit to a piggy.
Now; I could just drop the desperate forced AA inclusion. It gives you two more carniveans and a point for a spell martyr or shepherd. But what do you think? Pow 16 RoF d3+1, Pow 17 (ravagore), and Pow 16 spray (Carnivean). I think that's pretty much worth the investment. Add on to that Proteus could drag two heavies in, refuge away and the AA could put them in the dirt at pow 21. I think Refuge+Proteus is that safest way to get the AA to contribute well. Yes hellmouths could do something similar but the AA quickly out paces their threat bubble.
[End of Aby1]
So I still wanted to play the goofy AA yo-yo trick. But if not Aby1 then who? Well, only one other caster has a similar ability, once per game.
Vayl 1, Disciple of Everblight.
- Archangel
- Typhon
- Teraph
- Teraph
- Bloodseer
- Blightwasps
Shepherd
Shepherd
Ice Witches
First off, I hate the Ice Witches almost religiously. But Puppet master plays a big role in this c-c-c-combo!
So, The AA's animus lasts for a Round. Teraphs have counter blast. Puppet master the Teraphs, create two 10" bubbles of +2 fire damage aura,
, enjoy pow 15 counter blast AD Dig-in light warbeasts. (that only shot 6" away. but you get the idea. No zerg rushing for the opponent.)
Typhon still serves the same purpose here as well. Leash to try and save him if he goes in and just sprays a lot.
The feat is to either push this stupid "do not walk here" gamble way too flippin far up the board, or to back it up after it's been triggered the first time.
Now, I know. Pow 15 CB isn't going to rock the world. But it can still put in some meaningful dmg points on average. Puppet master helps as well.
Then, when feat has been used, Teraphs are likely to keep putting in damage with their guns while Typhon and/or AA go in under Incite.
Ice witches under incite could also clear patches of infantry.
Frostfield on the Blightwasps should make them stupidly accurate against any target under Incite. +4/+2 with cumulative gang, so mat 9-12. Pow10-13. It can get enough work done.
I feel like this list threatens Hordes far more than WM. Granted most all hordes are mean towards other hordes (beware my all poison bow army!). Not so much in that it had tech, but that on average you're looking more at arm 17 and 18 heavies. Skin and moans without corpse tokens for example. Griffons (puppet master to hit hopefully). Other legion beasts. etc...
Maybe the Blightwasps aren't really as useful as I hope but for 8pts I'm not sure what I would want instead. Raek wouldn't get to abuse Incite since it's tied to CMD. Another bloodseer would be a waste I think. 2 shredders might get more work down with flank (mat 9 pow 12 weaponmaster). Anyssa with prey could put out pow 14 Poison shots. It's up for debate. But I do like that the bloodseer can cast the animus for the wasps on them so they don't have to generate the fury before they get to attack.
[end Vayl1]
So I'm curious just what people think and if anyone would give the ideas a shot at a casual game night. I think they have clear merit. But their weaknesses are also quite easily exploited. So I wouldn't run them as a "main" but for a fun experiment into "beware Legion shenanigans" I think it will be hilarious.
My only problem is how to transport the stupid Archangel... I should have never glued his wings on. Was just impatient and didn't take the time to get magnets.
I thus opened Warroom and got to wonky theory crafting.
[WARNING: The below discussion will involve deliberately out-of-theme lists. It will also give Zero consideration to pairings or tournament results. Please continue with those expectations]
Absylonia 1, Terror of Everblight
- Archangel
- Typhon
- Ravagore
- Carnivean
- Bloodseer
Forsaken
Shepherd
Shepherd
Spell Martyr
This is the clearly not optimal "jank" list. this is where things started. The idea is based on the fact that Refuge specifically says "hit an enemy model with AN attack". It does not specify melee. So Typhon can Fly up at speed 7, spray three times, they walk away 7. The Bloodseer is there to project the AA animus for Typhon, Assaulting+refuge carnivean, and the Ravagore. This I think would be Fun, but clearly frustrating for the opponent. So I would want to refine the idea and yes, make it more optimal to not be so clearly... garbled.
Absylonia 1
- Archangel
- Proteus
- Ravagore
- Carnivean
- Blightwasps
Forsaken (free)
Forsaken (free)
Sorc & Helion (free)
Farrow Valkryies
This is more reliant on a single model; Proteus. With a 13 inch charge, 4" drag, and 5" refuge walk. He should be able to drag models into range of the AA or Abby for the +2 fire damage. Then the Ravagore and AA can safely put their shots to good use. Proteus can also buy additional drag attacks to clump more than one heavy together and walk away. Perfect for Blightburst, scather, and maybe the blast damage can even add 1 or 2 points if you're lucky.
However, that is quite reliant on Proteus. I'm afraid someone (maybe not on the first encounter) will figure that out and deny him quite well. So, the carnivean can pull multiple duties depending on the situation. IF the carnivean can hit something with his assault he could refuge further in. SG, blightburst, and rapid healing could make him just the most obnoxious to remove beast in the game. "Yes, please hit my Khador armor value that hurts you and heals himself each time. Go ahead. Oh and you're not allowed to spend focus. Have fun." But that would sort of rely on good positioning and being able to get Blightburst on the target that the Carnivean refuged to engage.
The Blightwasps are in there since dropping Typhon I didn't feel I had infantry clear and there just wasnt enough fire attacks turn-by-turn to need the Bloodseer. Wild Aggression would give a pretty good to-hit swing. With killing spree they should just get enough work done to take care on any typical combined-arms amount of infantry.
Valkryies are the because shield guard vengeance with a chance for crit knockdown is just too fun to pass up. I could use feat to clean up ranged damage if enough happened. But I'd rather just shift the hit to a piggy.
Now; I could just drop the desperate forced AA inclusion. It gives you two more carniveans and a point for a spell martyr or shepherd. But what do you think? Pow 16 RoF d3+1, Pow 17 (ravagore), and Pow 16 spray (Carnivean). I think that's pretty much worth the investment. Add on to that Proteus could drag two heavies in, refuge away and the AA could put them in the dirt at pow 21. I think Refuge+Proteus is that safest way to get the AA to contribute well. Yes hellmouths could do something similar but the AA quickly out paces their threat bubble.
[End of Aby1]
So I still wanted to play the goofy AA yo-yo trick. But if not Aby1 then who? Well, only one other caster has a similar ability, once per game.
Vayl 1, Disciple of Everblight.
- Archangel
- Typhon
- Teraph
- Teraph
- Bloodseer
- Blightwasps
Shepherd
Shepherd
Ice Witches
First off, I hate the Ice Witches almost religiously. But Puppet master plays a big role in this c-c-c-combo!
So, The AA's animus lasts for a Round. Teraphs have counter blast. Puppet master the Teraphs, create two 10" bubbles of +2 fire damage aura,
, enjoy pow 15 counter blast AD Dig-in light warbeasts. (that only shot 6" away. but you get the idea. No zerg rushing for the opponent.)Typhon still serves the same purpose here as well. Leash to try and save him if he goes in and just sprays a lot.
The feat is to either push this stupid "do not walk here" gamble way too flippin far up the board, or to back it up after it's been triggered the first time.
Now, I know. Pow 15 CB isn't going to rock the world. But it can still put in some meaningful dmg points on average. Puppet master helps as well.
Then, when feat has been used, Teraphs are likely to keep putting in damage with their guns while Typhon and/or AA go in under Incite.
Ice witches under incite could also clear patches of infantry.
Frostfield on the Blightwasps should make them stupidly accurate against any target under Incite. +4/+2 with cumulative gang, so mat 9-12. Pow10-13. It can get enough work done.
I feel like this list threatens Hordes far more than WM. Granted most all hordes are mean towards other hordes (beware my all poison bow army!). Not so much in that it had tech, but that on average you're looking more at arm 17 and 18 heavies. Skin and moans without corpse tokens for example. Griffons (puppet master to hit hopefully). Other legion beasts. etc...
Maybe the Blightwasps aren't really as useful as I hope but for 8pts I'm not sure what I would want instead. Raek wouldn't get to abuse Incite since it's tied to CMD. Another bloodseer would be a waste I think. 2 shredders might get more work down with flank (mat 9 pow 12 weaponmaster). Anyssa with prey could put out pow 14 Poison shots. It's up for debate. But I do like that the bloodseer can cast the animus for the wasps on them so they don't have to generate the fury before they get to attack.
[end Vayl1]
So I'm curious just what people think and if anyone would give the ideas a shot at a casual game night. I think they have clear merit. But their weaknesses are also quite easily exploited. So I wouldn't run them as a "main" but for a fun experiment into "beware Legion shenanigans" I think it will be hilarious.
My only problem is how to transport the stupid Archangel... I should have never glued his wings on. Was just impatient and didn't take the time to get magnets.
