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Post by Charistoph on Mar 14, 2018 16:37:02 GMT
No, this isn't another thread about new players not sticking around after journeymen leagues. This is about the rookie warcasters and warlocks that each army has and is training up to take the reigns when the current masters get killed off.
Sure, there are the Characters such as Allison Jakes and Wrong-eye, but what about the generic, nameless ones. Only Cygnar seems to be willing to field the ones who have not generated a name for themselves. The Protectorate prides itself on being able to quickly identify those of Warcaster means, and the Skorne always have new warriors learning mortitheurgy. So where are they?
I have a more fun challenge on top of that for you, though, how would you set up your army's Battlegroup Solos? Limitations are 5 Damage, 3 Focus/Fury, 2 spells, and cannot be stronger then the Characters. What would you come up with?
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 14, 2018 18:07:09 GMT
I'm pretty sure Protectorate condemns them to servitude as Vassals of Menoth, right? And Everblight and Cryx just kind of make their own when they need them.
But I've always assumed they're the spellcasters in faction. In Khador, the Warcasters are trained by the Greylord Covenant, so I imagine very junior warcasters are parts of the Ternion and the Outriders, who are then whisked away to safety if they look like becoming useful
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Post by tiberius on Mar 14, 2018 18:13:01 GMT
There were all the journeymen that became actual casters like Aiakos and Jakes. One for each faction right?
For the challenge for Cryx, probably a warwitch siren-esque thing. 5 wounds, SPD 7, DEF 14, ARM 12, FOC 3, Innate stealth and parry, some sort of spell like occultation and/or maybe something like ghost walk. Stealth or pathfinder on a stick sounds really good to me. Scything touch would be the other spell I would give her. Occultation and scything touch. Then she could keep up with and support the flying bone jacks really well, or a pair of stalkers, increase their damage output and protect them.
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Post by Charistoph on Mar 14, 2018 18:15:54 GMT
I'm pretty sure Protectorate condemns them to servitude as Vassals of Menoth, right? Only those that show other magical gifts. I don't see Severius having spent any time as the "mage in the iron mask". Being a Warcaster is all about the bond to the Cortexes, and the Protectorate's are a little different. And Everblight and Cryx just kind of make their own when they need them. While that is true for the Legion to a point, Cryx is a bit different, but they have to get experience somewhere while learning their skills. But I've always assumed they're the spellcasters in faction. In Khador, the Warcasters are trained by the Greylord Covenant, so I imagine very junior warcasters are parts of the Ternion and the Outriders, who are then whisked away to safety if they look like becoming useful I don't see the Butcher being part of that... Wasn't Strike a Storm Knight first? But hey, couldn't Khador use a light cavalry caster? There were all the journeymen that became actual casters like Aiakos and Jakes. One for each faction right? Correct. What would they (and any up and comers) have looked like before they make a name for themselves?
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Post by W0lfBane on Mar 14, 2018 18:54:43 GMT
I want a journeyman warcaster stack for protectorate. Like one of the other nations journeyman gets captured and wracked
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Post by oncomingstorm on Mar 14, 2018 18:55:29 GMT
Can't be stronger than their characters means that Circle can't have a generic journeyman...since Una1 is trash-tier or close to it.
Assuming you mean 'not stronger (in general) than character journeyman,' I'd propose the following:
"Junior Blackclad"
Fury 4, Def 14, Arm 14, Mat 5, Rat 6. - Prowl - P+S 10 stick, Magical Spray 8 Pow 12 - Boundless Charge, "Solid Fog" - Solid Fog: Cost 2, Range CTRL: place a 4" cloud effect completely within the spellcaster's CTRL range.
You can't have lesser warlocks with less than Fury 4. The way fury works, and the fact that there are fewer shooty hordes lights, a 6" control area would be unworkably restrictive (arguably, 8" is still too restrictive).
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Post by tiberius on Mar 14, 2018 19:01:35 GMT
Even Rorsh who is 3 Fury has double control area with Brine.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 14, 2018 19:01:48 GMT
If I remember correctly, Vassels are captured Cygnarans forced into servitude.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Mar 14, 2018 20:09:24 GMT
Isn't the Druid Wilder a warlock-in-training? Actually I thought all Blackclads were potential warlocks if they worked hard enough.
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Hjard
Junior Strategist
Posts: 123
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Post by Hjard on Mar 15, 2018 7:15:39 GMT
That's almost entirely a story thing. Cygnar is the only faction that regularly sends their Warcasters in training into battle. There, every new Warcaster has to complete at least a year under active tutelage of a senior Warcaster, travelling around with him in his campaigns. With all other factions (besides Khador) being much, much smaller than Cygnar, they also have a lot less people with the Warcaster talent. Hence they tend to train them away from the war until they are a lot more developed than a cygnaren Journeyman. Khador for example schools them in military college and then in the Greylord covenant for arcane knowledge. Cygnar just prefers the "actual combat experience" route in addition to classical schooling.
As for Warlocks: Apart from Legion it's the same as with Warcasters. You are either born with the Warlock talent, or you are not. There is no "learning to bond with beasts", at least not in a natural way. Legion and Circle are a little different though. Everyone knows how Legion works, Circle has enough involvement of "higher powers" in their ranks, that it might be possible for someone to "develop" the warlock gift. Develop as in: It's probably divine intervention.
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Post by borderprince on Mar 15, 2018 9:36:27 GMT
Sure, there are the Characters such as Allison Jakes and Wrong-eye, but what about the generic, nameless ones. That assumes there are generic, nameless rookie casters/locks. But if a faction has only a small supply of new casters/locks, even the Journeymen may well be named and special characters. From what we've seen from young casters in the fluff, all of them have different abilities. Cygnar trains its journeymen in a (fairly) standardised way, which enables generic journeymen with identical abilities in game terms. Although even in Cygnar there some journeymen have their own talents (think Jakes, or the new caster discovered in Aftershock). I wonder if the faction which might actually be closest to Cygnar would be the Skorne, as their warlock abilities are apparently an extension of mortitheurgy, which is taught and studied. But then that gets modified by house and caste status. Other factions (and probably best to exclude mercs/minions here) might not have that kind of standardised training, so all of their casters, even the most junior, might have different abilities. That might be more pronounced if a faction permits its juniors to play to their strengths (Una1 would be an example - she clearly has an affinity for particular beasts, and the Circle accommodates that), or if training is more on an apprenticeship model from the beginning (where casters might pick up non-standard abilities from their mentor). From what we've seen so far for training (mainly in Rites of Passage): - The Aiakos story suggests that in Cryx identifying anyone with 'caster talent (or at least, anyone living - this is Cryx, after all) is rare and such individuals are instantly in some sense 'special'. Aiakos is also largely left to figure things out on his own - but Cryx is in a more or less permanent state of low-level conflict with everyone (including each other) and has a very Darwinian society. Training or apprenticeship would just mean putting effort into creating a rival;
- Khador varies a bit. Sorscha apparently had some kind of apprenticeship
with Vlad. But this isn't mentioned for Malakov, who was instead trained at the Druzinha (presumably with arcane training via the Greylords). That might be a timing issue - maybe Malakov is rushed into the frontlines independently due to the pressures and multiple fronts Khador experienced towards the end of the Mk2 fluff, and that normally he would have also had an apprenticeship too;
- For the Protectorate, their Choir is meant to be how potential casters are identified, and that worked for Durant. It's difficult to tell if his story is typical, as he was discovered while part of an active Crusade, but even then he was taken out of combat roles for his training. That training was apprenticeship based, rather than standardised.
The Protectorate sends captured arcanists to be Vassals (and apparently actively tries to capture them). Menites with magical abilities apparently also voluntarily become Vassals. Presumably such Menites might then be identified as potential warcasters from their work with mechanika and cortexes. We haven't yet seen that in the background, but a special connection to mechanika is something that can identify a potential warcaster (mentioned in relation to Alison Jakes). If Maddox is typical, captured warcasters aren't trusted to do anything other than be tortured and imprisoned.But then captured warcasters are all captured officers with potentially very valuable information, so that makes sense (see also Vindictus torturing Vlad).
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Mar 15, 2018 9:41:21 GMT
Pointless Wishlisting is fun. I'd like a generic lesser and I'd also like a Beast Handler CA, so why not combine the two?
Paingiver Primus (Skorne Paingiver Beast Handler CA)
MAT6, RAT0, DEF13, ARM13, 5 Boxes, Fury3, CMD7, PC3, FA:1
Lesser Warlock Field Marshal (Long Leash) Sac Pawn (Warbeasts in this Model's battlegroup) Prodding
*Actions: Enrage, Condition
Weapons: Whip (same as the rest of the unit)
Spells: Bleed Torment (Cost:1, RNG:6, Duration: Turn, Target model in this model's battlegroup gains +2 to attack rolls and overtake, everytime it is forced or spends fury it takes D3 damage)
Alternatively, something a bit off-concept. I'd really like to see some more Skorne along the lines of Jalaam and the following could be pretty interesting for both Skorne and Minions. Also, the first purely negative Field Marshal:
Super Deser Hobo (name pending) (Minion Lesser Warlock)
MAT5, RAT6, DEF15, ARM12, 5 Boxes, Fury4, CMD6, PC5, FA:1
Partizan (Skorne) Lesser Warlock Selective Battlegroup: This model's battlegroup can include only Skorne Warbeasts. While this model is a Minion Model, Warbeasts in its battlegroup count as Minion models instead of Skorne models. Prowl Pathfinder Gunfighter Prey Reposition (3) Field Marshal (Feral): Warbeasts in this model's battlegroup gain Feral (A model with Feral cannot be affected by Enrage, Medicate or Condition special actions)
Weapons: 2x Stinger (RNG10, P+S10)
Spells: Fight (Rng 6, Duration: Turn, Cost:3, Target Warbeast in this model's battlegroup gains +2 to attack and damage rolls against the target of this model's Prey) Flight (Rng 6, Duration: Turn, Cost:2, Target Warbeast in this model's battlegroup gains Sprint)
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Post by redcathal on Mar 15, 2018 12:01:17 GMT
"Junior Blackclad" Fury 4, Def 14, Arm 14, Mat 5, Rat 6. - Prowl - P+S 10 stick, Magical Spray 8 Pow 12 - Boundless Charge, "Solid Fog" - Solid Fog: Cost 2, Range CTRL: place a 4" cloud effect completely within the spellcaster's CTRL range. A way of giving beasts Pathfinder? Will never happen...would be good though
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Mar 15, 2018 12:38:48 GMT
If I remember correctly, Vassels are captured Cygnarans forced into servitude. There's a secondary wave of locally sourced volunteers, actually. They're punishing themselves for their magic. While the prisoners are very much that, these guys wear the chains in public but get to relax, just a bit, after hours.
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Post by greenjello on Mar 15, 2018 14:08:30 GMT
From a mechanical perspective the journeyman warcaster was very early release, and never really functioned correctly. He was seldom taken in mkI since he was easy to kill, and remove an expensive solo AND a jack. At some point people figured out he was useful for Arcane Shield on a stick, and I think he's points dropped. So he was okay as a piece, but a poor match between theme and actual use, since he was always without a Battlegroup.
Not sure what the consensus is in mkIII with his required battlegroup rule, but it could be PP has finally gotten his rules dialed in, and we might see some others.
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