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Post by sardonicartery on Apr 5, 2017 16:29:57 GMT
Played Chiron twice last night with Xerxis2. Did well with it both games, but here are my initial reactions:
A 10” spray—especially with assault—is glorious. It tags a lot of models, meaning I’m looking more at Xekaar’s bond. Four initials on the charge is hot, too, though don’t expect the claws to do much to a heavy. Still two open fists in a pinch though. Having base magical on the spray is a huge perk. Happy to get one more POW over the drake, too. The fury management on basilisks is nice at all levels: Run for free turn one, run less hot when you smash face with your basilisks, etc.
Counterblast is okay, but definitely stronger against incoming beasts if you can spray them. I’m not sure which warlocks love it outside of Morghoul2 and anyone who can add fury to incoming beasts (EDIT: Xerxis2 *can* knock them down if they enter within a 1/2" -- no crit pitch though).
Overall, I still feel like 19 points is too much. In some ways, it feels like MK2 trenchers: where you’re paying for abilities that you don’t get to use at the same time. I’d rather have cheaper non-character heavies. If I am paying the full 19, I think he loses out to Karn and Despoiler. Karn still has a longer threat, reach, and a unique boosting mechanic/defense/animus before you get to Makeda perks. Despoiler gives dark shroud to the army and a free upkeep before you get to Mordikaar perks. With both, you need nothing else in your army (save standards like beast handlers, gladiator, krea) to reap the benefits, whereas Chiron seems to want a couple of basilisks to start pulling weight, and frankly, basilisks are too squishy in MK3. The krea gets everyone else across the board then she goes down. I won’t count her as a model you’re bringing because of Chiron, but one krea is not enough to boost his worth.
I will say that a 12/18 statline with dig in does make Chiron more survivable than Despoiler and Karn against ranged. Has 2 more boxes, too. Get him on dug in on a hill with the krea animus waiting to counterblast is a happy place, especially if you can keep your dig in bonus and aim-spray next turn. I look forward to fiddling around with him more to find the nuances with warlocks.
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Post by Ereshkigal on Apr 5, 2017 21:31:19 GMT
Feels more like a dead weight to me right now. It needs to be 2 pts cheaper or have better synergies to be somewhat worth it. The spray it's interesting, but it's no Discordia.
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Post by Voidwanderer on Apr 5, 2017 22:03:46 GMT
Feels more like a dead weight to me right now. It needs to be 2 pts cheaper or have better synergies to be somewhat worth it. The spray it's interesting, but it's no Discordia. Exaсtly my thoughts. Being also a retri player, I couldn't help but compare Chiron to Disco. Disco has a more dangerous spray (brain damage is much better than inflict pain to me), a better buff to other models (in fact the aura is so good, that I couldn't make a jack list without including her before the theme force came out) and has quite the same melee potential. And it is 1 point cheaper. So for now I'm thinking about trying it with my old mk2 drakespam list, but I'm not sure it's really actual in mk3. |
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Post by toconut on Apr 6, 2017 8:05:30 GMT
I don't think you can counterblast with spray if you get engaged, so I don't think it will help against an incoming heavy. I'm a bit disappointed too, still hoping to see the wonders of a 10 inch spray, but point cost is too high for that only
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156 
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Post by cassus on May 9, 2017 0:20:32 GMT
So far the one game I proxied him in with Mak3 was enough to make me convinced I wanted to add him to my collection. The spray is a very good option to have, it just makes me a little sad that it had to be tied to a character beast. I didn't find him to be to much of a slouch in melee either and as a cheap source of counterblast he could be a very interesting choice with some of our hard hitting melee castors (looking at you Mak3, Zaad2, Morg2, and Zaal1's spirit eye). Do I think 19 points is the right cost, no and frankly I think someone is being really lazy costing 3 of our character beasts at 19 points.
Still I think he is good enough to take.
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Post by Cryptix on May 9, 2017 4:32:17 GMT
I'll try him out in a Xekaar Basilisk Spam this weekend, proxying with a Drake on a bigger base. How does this sound? conflictchamber.com/#b91b_-0kg24v4v4v4x4xhGgl6N5USkorne Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Winds of Death !!! Your army contains a pre-release entry. (Xekaar 1) Beast Master Xekaar [+31] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Chiron [19] - Desert Hydra [38] - Aptimus Marketh [5] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Another option is conflictchamber.com/#b91b6Q6U4v4v4v4x4x4xhGgg5U6p6FSkorne Army - 75 / 75 points !!! Your army contains pre-release entries. (Hexeris 2) Lord Arbiter Hexeris [+27] - Archidon [10] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Chiron [19] Venator Dakar [4] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Venator Reivers (max) [15] - Venator Reiver Officer & Standard [4] |
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Post by greytemplar on May 9, 2017 5:20:56 GMT
I don't think you can counterblast with spray if you get engaged, so I don't think it will help against an incoming heavy. I'm a bit disappointed too, still hoping to see the wonders of a 10 inch spray, but point cost is too high for that only He can protect another of your beasts that getting charged. That's not nothing. But he's definitely still a little too expensive. |
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on May 10, 2017 1:35:27 GMT
I'll try him out in a Xekaar Basilisk Spam this weekend, proxying with a Drake on a bigger base. How does this sound? conflictchamber.com/#b91b_-0kg24v4v4v4x4xhGgl6N5USkorne Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Winds of Death !!! Your army contains a pre-release entry. (Xekaar 1) Beast Master Xekaar [+31] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Chiron [19] - Desert Hydra [38] - Aptimus Marketh [5] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Another option is conflictchamber.com/#b91b6Q6U4v4v4v4x4x4xhGgg5U6p6FSkorne Army - 75 / 75 points !!! Your army contains pre-release entries. (Hexeris 2) Lord Arbiter Hexeris [+27] - Archidon [10] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Chiron [19] Venator Dakar [4] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Venator Reivers (max) [15] - Venator Reiver Officer & Standard [4] way too many basilisks there. Keep it limited to 3 or 4 with only enough krea to get you across the field. Putting in a titan instead and letting it bash around once you get into engagement will be much more effective. |
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by cassus on May 10, 2017 2:32:55 GMT
While his leadership abbility is nice I dont think drakes are good enough to build around. The basilisks die way to easy for their points, the krea is the only one worth taking. I plan on pairing Chiron with a pair of cannoneers as my shooting force, that many POW 15 guns show do work.
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Post by dessert hydra on May 10, 2017 7:41:58 GMT
I've always found Drakes are value. 8' magic spray's are good for clearing (all)infantry plus a surprisingly handy animus for certain casters that lack pathfinder. They aren't front line lights like a brute/savage but they have always made my points back.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on May 10, 2017 8:18:31 GMT
that was back in the day of full infantry spams. Now, beasts and jacks generally take up the majority of the board with infantry filling the gaps. There are a few places where you'll still see infantry spam (ghost fleet) where the drake sprays would see quite a bit of use, but with only having magical, I don't see where you could really get your money's worth for taking any more than 2 (and that would be one hell of a heavily skewed list). If they had a continuous corrosion effect on them, like fire on the flameguard cleansers of Menoth, I can see a wide range use where even having 4 could be possible, but with only magic I'm not seeing much worth.
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Post by dessert hydra on May 10, 2017 12:11:56 GMT
Drake spam is highly effective with X2 the '18 threat is better than most assault sprays.
I don't have empirical evidence to this but .. cryx ghost fleet took the last SRI I was in, plus the forum seems to be full of ghost fleet taking big and small SRs and events .. and IMHO I see SR17 shifting the meta even further away from complete jack spam.
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Post by dessert hydra on May 10, 2017 12:12:45 GMT
Just to also point out I agree with some of what you say I don't take 4 drakes lol.. I only own two but have never regretted fielding them both.
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by cassus on May 10, 2017 12:31:26 GMT
Fair point. I have only ever looked at them on paper as I don't own any. Arm14 and 22 boxes just didnt seem like it would be able to take any kind of a hit so I never saw the point in taking them. However with the rising prevalence of ghost fleet and our relative lack of magical weapons outside of Immortals, drakes, Chiron, and soulwards granting it to a single model the meta may dictate taking them now.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on May 11, 2017 0:11:32 GMT
Generally, if a list wins too many tourneys, it'll get nerfed in a hurry. Technicalities are generally the only things that get in the way. "the nerf is ready, it's just not released." "If we nerf that then we'll have to nerf this and buff this somehow." "It still gets mauled by this list, do we need to nerf something about that list as well?" "We are still test phasing the agreed upon nerfs." x.x;
Nemo3 e-leap and ghost fleet are two things that I can see getting nerfed. Sure, they can be countered pretty hard, but having to bring a specific list to a tournament just to counter a singular list?
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