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Post by Azahul on Mar 14, 2018 1:47:16 GMT
I really like Pack Hunters, it is simple and effective. However switching both abilities for Alpha Hunter and Relentless charge would be good, and it kind of a damage buff (free charges are a thing). He could possibly gain a damage buff spell too. Hahah- Last Stand? He already has free charges though, so it's not really a buff on what Drang currently offers. And the fundamental complaint is that what he currently offers isn't enough to make him viable.
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Post by Gaston on Mar 14, 2018 2:07:32 GMT
Drang needs a threat extender. TK is too good to not stay Sturm always and forever.
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Post by custardboy on Mar 14, 2018 2:22:31 GMT
My full preference for Drang would be:
Drang gains SPD 7
Field Marshal: Wailing (think of it as the beasts screaming as someone so tormented and insane dominates them)
Spells: Obliteration Carnage (I think this is better for mixed arms- we have enough pure beast casters) Damnation (Ala Denny2, not 100% on this as the Soul Slave casting TK and then overtake gives pretty monumental threat)
This may sound rather strong, but the whole issue with Sturm and Drang is that neither are as good as a 'real' caster. They both have to be almost as good, but different.
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Post by Azahul on Mar 14, 2018 3:04:03 GMT
I certainly agree with some form of speed buff on Drang personally. Engine of Destruction would be a neat alternative, and very flavourful. I'd love to have a way for him to contribute personally, and it would make a Road Hog a compelling choice with him.
I'm less sure I like the idea of loading him up with quality spells though. To me, part of the concept is that his strength is in passive benefits, while Sturm's is in his spell list. I wouldn't be adverse to stripping out his spells entirely, but that's getting a bit close to Kromac1. Sticking to two is probably enough, it's just that the passive benefits need some more work. A Field Marshal replicated by a theme benefit is the first problem point (and I'm really sad that they didn't get a look-in back during the Christmas CID to fix that), particularly when Sturm's Field Marshal is better anyway.
They don't need all of these ideas, but they really, really need some kind of threat range booster if nothing else, just so you don't consistently end up in the current situation of "Drang is the punchy one, but I have to stay Sturm to be able to get close enough to punch them". Maybe Abuse isn't such a bad idea...
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Post by nirvanawn on Mar 14, 2018 3:53:31 GMT
We can’t talk about Strum and Drang without sporting my Dracadile list. How did no one talk about this?
War Room Army
Minions - Strum 75 pts WWFF Dracadile
Theme: Will Work For Food 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Sturm & Drang - WB: +28 - Gatorman Soul Slave - PC: 0 - War Hog - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Battle Boar - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Battle Boar - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
Wrong Eye - Wrong Eye & Snapjaw: 17 - Snapjaw - Dracodile - PC: 36 Bone Shrine - PC: 2 Kwaak Slickspine & Gub, Croak Sorcerers - PC: 0 Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 0 Gatorman Husk - PC: 3 Gatorman Husk - PC: 3 Gatorman Husk - PC: 3
Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2
THEME: Will Work For Food ---
GENERATED : 03/13/2018 23:48:00 BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21
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Post by Azahul on Mar 14, 2018 4:05:16 GMT
Actually, come to think of it, if they just reworded Struggle of Wills to explicitly prevent the Soul Slave from casting spells from the list of the head not in charge, Abuse would probably be fine. Say:
-Replace Killing Ground with Abuse -Replace the Field Marshal Overtake with Field Marshal Relentless Charge -...done?
Honestly, that's probably all you need to do to make Drang compelling. Toss in a rule that prevents Warjacks from Powering Up under their Feat and I don't think I'd have anything bad to say about them.
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Post by Azahul on Mar 14, 2018 4:11:55 GMT
We can’t talk about Strum and Drang without sporting my Dracadile list. How did no one talk about this? To be honest, I didn't bring it up because I've never gotten over my disappointment that you can't physically fit Wrongeye and two Dracodiles into 75 points
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Post by gobber on Mar 14, 2018 6:16:38 GMT
Well the triple husks are in the mail. Y'all haven't led me astray thus far.
We don't have a ton of wraith engines showing up locally so I think I may be able to get away with dropping orin and the mist speaker in order to squeeze brun and lug in there. Vision+enliven does a lot for his countercharge/return/hyperaggro trickery, and an extra pathfinder heavy with grab & smash is always nice to have around (Sturm 1 & Drang 1) Sturm & Drang [+28] - Battle Boar [7] - Battle Boar [7] - Battle Boar [7] - Battle Boar [7] - Gatorman Soul Slave [0(5)] Bone Shrine [2] Brun Cragback [16] Dahlia Hallyr [17] Gatorman Husk [3] Gatorman Husk [3] Gatorman Husk [3] Kwaak Slickspine & Gub, Croak Sorcerers [0(4)] Longchops [0(5)] Rorsh [15] Meat Thresher [16]
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Post by Azahul on Mar 14, 2018 6:43:25 GMT
Hehe, I like it. Always fun to see Brun and Lug on the table, and one of the things I've been enjoying is how interactive triple Husks and Skarath can be in the opponent's turn. Counter Charge adds another layer to that.
Sounds like if you dropped two Battle Boars and Brun and Lug you'd just about have Gaston's list.
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Post by shortcutbacon on Mar 14, 2018 7:43:20 GMT
Can someone clarify for me how exactly you can TK them? I was under the impression that due to Immobile stating they cannot be moved that it would include TK, or does that only apply to slams? Place isn't move. Otherwise Circle stones wouldn't be able to function. Thanks Azahul. *Evil pig laughing* Time for some S&D
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walden
Junior Strategist
Posts: 136
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Post by walden on Mar 14, 2018 14:51:24 GMT
I USED DRANG! Being able to TK Skarath with the Soul Slave and still get +2 Mat and free charges for the Battle Boars was really nice. I'm... not sure it's realistically part of any game plan outside of the final turn, but it's at least worth consideration when you're facing that many infantry and have that many Battle Boars. Wait, the soulslave is allowed to use sturm spells when you are Drang? Last game I didn't because I want sure.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 14, 2018 18:59:46 GMT
Drang needs a threat extender. TK is too good to not stay Sturm always and forever. Why not just add +2 speed to killing ground. It does not make sense that you use Sturm to get the hard alpha anyway. Drang should be the one shoving piggies forward.
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Post by Azahul on Mar 14, 2018 20:34:00 GMT
Wait, the soulslave is allowed to use sturm spells when you are Drang? Last game I didn't because I want sure. Yep. Spell Slave is "Any spell on the card" and we have confirmation from the Infernals that they don't lose the spells from their card when the other head is in control.
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walden
Junior Strategist
Posts: 136
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Post by walden on Mar 14, 2018 21:37:03 GMT
Wait, the soulslave is allowed to use sturm spells when you are Drang? Last game I didn't because I want sure. Yep. Spell Slave is "Any spell on the card" and we have confirmation from the Infernals that they don't lose the spells from their card when the other head is in control. That's pretty good. I'm going to have to revisit them now.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 16, 2018 19:12:44 GMT
After reading through all of this, what about a Hordes version of Redline? You wanted a damage buff and a threat extender, why not both in one spell?
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