|
Post by Azahul on Mar 11, 2018 4:25:34 GMT
I think Sturm and Drang may have just become my favourite non-Arkadius Warlock...
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Mar 11, 2018 5:15:26 GMT
It is a good feeling when you have models that suppprt your warlock.
|
|
|
Post by Azahul on Mar 11, 2018 5:46:19 GMT
It's like this synergy thing I keep hearing about...
|
|
|
Post by zwergenkrieger on Mar 11, 2018 6:59:55 GMT
I think Sturm and Drang may have just become my favourite non-Arkadius Warlock... Mmhh, why is it so good that one would like to run Sturm and Drang?
|
|
|
Post by Azahul on Mar 11, 2018 8:13:55 GMT
Mmhh, why is it so good that one would like to run Sturm and Drang? It's sort of the icing on the top, really. I haven't touched Sturm and Drang since pre-Battle Engine CID. Now, thanks to the Blindwater releases and the Meat Thresher buff, they have both the resources to do their tricks and models worth doing those tricks with. I've been messing around trying to find a good pair for Arkadius, particularly a good answer to Cryx and infantry Hordes like Trolls and Skorne. I'm... not 100% sure they do well into the latter since they don't really crack the armour on Trolls or Skorne, but haven't had a chance to test that properly yet. I've only run them twice now, once into Rask Super Friends and once into a Hexy1 light infantry list where the lack of anti-armour punch wasn't an issue, but they've been a blast. And good lord do they shut down Super Friends hard. Husks make for a really neat way to kill Dahlia, for example And being able to deal so effectively with six heavies gives me some hope for them into tougher targets. Got a tournament on Saturday so I'll have an opportunity to see how they impact my pairing and see if they actually have a home in the competitive scene now.
|
|
|
Post by superrunes on Mar 11, 2018 8:19:40 GMT
What has been in your list azahul?
|
|
|
Post by Azahul on Mar 11, 2018 8:31:27 GMT
Well, I was running this today:
Sturm and Drang -Battle Boar -Battle Boar -Battle Boar -Battle Boar -Soul Slave (free) Min Bone Grinders Dahlia -Skarath Rorsh -Brine Bone Shrine Bone Shrine Husk Husk Husk Longchops (free) Kwaak and Gub Mist Speaker Gobber Chef Meat Thresher
After the two games my conclusion is that the Bone Grinders need to become Orin Midwinter. I'll be sad to lose my only unit for capping zones, but Craft Talisman hasn't been valuable in either game and I think Arcane Vortex just removes so many threats to the Meat Thresher (basically all the ones not already covered by having four Shield Guards).
When I originally wrote it I felt like the list didn't have anywhere near enough workhorses, but after a couple of games I'm not worried too much at all. The Battle Boars are there to tempt me to swap to Drang occasionally for Mat 9 Berserkers... though the one time I had an opportunity for a fantastic murder chain I kept Sturm in control because locking down an entire flank with Polarity Shield was more important. Still, they at least fill out Sturm's Warbeast points and can get a decent amount of work done when necessary. Vision goes on Skarath, he and Brine get Enliven, and they become quite hard to effectively deal with. Longchops and the Soul Slave give some play into Ghost Fleet, and Longchops adds to the layers of board control your opponent has to deal with. Opponents have to get through the Feat, Polarity Shield, Enliven, Skarath's Counterblast, Husk AOEs, and then the trap before they can start thinking about piece trading. It absolutely shone into Super Friends, where I only lost my Husks and Meat Thresher (and only lost that to ludicrously high dice rolls) and basically tabled my opponent's entire list.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Mar 11, 2018 14:06:07 GMT
Azahul, After playing into Gaston’s version I think your very much better off with Orin. I hate that model Why 4 Battle boars? Why not 2 BB’s and 2 Gun/Splatter Boars?
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Mar 11, 2018 14:17:33 GMT
I hate that guy Man, tough crowd.
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Mar 11, 2018 14:23:10 GMT
Azahul Our lists are converging independently, which is always dead sexy! Some things: I had gone heavier with 2 War Hogs 2 Battle Boars for a BG. When I tried 2 Road Hogs instead, the list just felt super weak on the armor cracking. One of the reasons why I like this Sturm-style is that it actually functions, but one of the reasons why I didn't pursue it was that I didn't have match ups that I wanted to put it against as a primary. Do you think it can handle all of Cryx? We primarily see Dark Host (x2 Banes, x1 Riders, Wraith Engine, stuff) or Slayer spam jack-style with the Carapace theme. Thoughts into those match ups? Once it solves those, how would you expand the match up list if paired with some random caster who's name rhymes with Orkadius? I noticed you had a Mist Speaker but no Doc Croc. Has pathfinder been an issue yet? (It was for me almost immediately). What about using that handy house to hide behind. Or maneuvering the Thresher in non-awkward ways? Any interest in Eilish puppet strings? Gremlin Swarm contesters? Are you actually using the Bone Shrines for arcing? Sturm only has TK (Rng 8) and Drang has Obliteration (but Drang is always a mistake). Is 360 vision gone now? Unless I am really misreading, the Shrines still have a 180 degree field of view even with Circular Vision.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Mar 11, 2018 14:42:57 GMT
I hate that guy Man, tough crowd. I was talking about Orin! Don’t be so sensitive
|
|
|
Post by Azahul on Mar 11, 2018 20:24:36 GMT
Azahul , After playing into Gaston’s version I think your very much better off with Orin. I hate that model Why 4 Battle boars? Why not 2 BB’s and 2 Gun/Splatter Boars? Partly to save on points (I can't think of anything I'd want to cut for the 2-4 points needed to turn Battle Boars into their cousins), partly because I generally believe that for every Battle Boar you want to perform infantry clearing you should have another to serve as a Primal bot. They're better at it under Drang than they are under any other pig Warlock, so I figured I'd take advantage of that fact.
|
|
|
Post by Azahul on Mar 11, 2018 20:39:57 GMT
Azahul Our lists are converging independently, which is always dead sexy! Some things: I had gone heavier with 2 War Hogs 2 Battle Boars for a BG. When I tried 2 Road Hogs instead, the list just felt super weak on the armor cracking. That's certainly the list's main weakness. I got through Rask's six heavies pretty easily, but I dropped Skarath by sniping Dahlia with a Husk and mostly killed Brine by attacking Rorsh and forcing transfers (though Rorsh isn't actually that much easier to hurt than Brine) which are tricks you can't replicate against most lists. On the other hand, the list is pretty hard to actually hurt, so you can try to make up for that lack of hitting power by working your opponent over for several turns using your Feat and TK and Enliven and Vision to keep your workhorses alive. One of the reasons why I like this Sturm-style is that it actually functions, but one of the reasons why I didn't pursue it was that I didn't have match ups that I wanted to put it against as a primary. Do you think it can handle all of Cryx? We primarily see Dark Host (x2 Banes, x1 Riders, Wraith Engine, stuff) or Slayer spam jack-style with the Carapace theme. Thoughts into those match ups? Once it solves those, how would you expand the match up list if paired with some random caster who's name rhymes with Orkadius? It should work Banes over like nobody's business. They have no way to reasonably deal with Husks, Bane Riders lose pretty hard to a Polarity Shielded Meat Thresher, Brine with the Mist Speaker can drop the Wraith Engine long before it becomes a problem, and Battle Boars and Skarath should be able to mop up whatever's left. Slayer spam Dark Industries is more problematic, as discussed above, though I need to practice this list into armoured lists more before I call it. I don't hate being in a list chicken situation, particularly when I have two lists that look so similar on paper from an outside perspective (double WWFF heavy on the beasts) since that often makes predicting the opponent's drop relatively easy. I'd assume most opponents would swing towards Banes when presented with this list and Arkadius without thinking too hard about it. If they drop Slayers... well, I've got a 16-18" assassination threat through Brine to fall back on and they don't have too many models that I need to TK out of the way first. I noticed you had a Mist Speaker but no Doc Croc. Has pathfinder been an issue yet? (It was for me almost immediately). What about using that handy house to hide behind. Or maneuvering the Thresher in non-awkward ways? Any interest in Eilish puppet strings? Gremlin Swarm contesters? Pathfinder is always an issue, sadly, but I can't think of a single piece to drop to free up points. I can't lose the Mist Speaker or else my Cryx drop can't handle the majority of Cryx lists. If I take away Husks or Longchops I lose parts of the interlocking web that makes this list so utterly obnoxious for most opponents to deal with. I don't think Ghostly is worth losing any of that, not when WWFF means that I'm halfway up the table Turn one and have the speed to get around any annoying terrain. And if it's not worth it for Ghostly, it's certainly not worth it for luxuries like Puppet Strings or Gremlin Swarms. Are you actually using the Bone Shrines for arcing? Sturm only has TK (Rng 8) and Drang has Obliteration (but Drang is always a mistake). Is 360 vision gone now? Unless I am really misreading, the Shrines still have a 180 degree field of view even with Circular Vision. Principally for arcing TK onto my own models. I've only cast one offensive TK so far, and that was through the Soul Slave. This being WWFF though, you often don't have very many models actually behind the Bone Shrine. Worst case scenario, I can always TK the Bone Shrine around. Did you know you can TK Bone Shrines?!
|
|
|
Post by shortcutbacon on Mar 12, 2018 7:56:37 GMT
Can someone clarify for me how exactly you can TK them?
I was under the impression that due to Immobile stating they cannot be moved that it would include TK, or does that only apply to slams?
|
|
|
Post by Azahul on Mar 12, 2018 8:20:12 GMT
Can someone clarify for me how exactly you can TK them? I was under the impression that due to Immobile stating they cannot be moved that it would include TK, or does that only apply to slams? Place isn't move. Otherwise Circle stones wouldn't be able to function.
|
|