|
Post by oncomingstorm on Apr 6, 2017 0:46:06 GMT
For Cygnar presently, I think you are safe in buying casters (haley1 was weird, but I think that now with CID it shouldn't happen again), solos, and jacks. By popular oppinion, none of these things are overly powerful in the current game. Meh, I don't know if I'd buy laddermore. She seems like a likely vector for a Stormlance nerf.
|
|
|
Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Apr 6, 2017 1:08:22 GMT
For Cygnar presently, I think you are safe in buying casters (haley1 was weird, but I think that now with CID it shouldn't happen again), solos, and jacks. By popular oppinion, none of these things are overly powerful in the current game. Meh, I don't know if I'd buy laddermore. She seems like a likely vector for a Stormlance nerf. Y'know, that could happen. I would hope they only drop half of her electrocharger rule. I've thought on this a bit, and I'd like to hear some oppinions on it. What if the rules in the storm division theme excluded the squire and junior from free solos? Like, they'd still be allowed in the theme, but not eligible to be free.
|
|
|
Post by octaviusmaximus on Apr 6, 2017 2:12:31 GMT
Meh, I don't know if I'd buy laddermore. She seems like a likely vector for a Stormlance nerf. Y'know, that could happen. I would hope they only drop half of her electrocharger rule. I've thought on this a bit, and I'd like to hear some oppinions on it. What if the rules in the storm division theme excluded the squire and junior from free solos? Like, they'd still be allowed in the theme, but not eligible to be free. Then you get free... Stormblade captains and Acosta? Woo? A lot of lists which aren't "just throw storm man's at them" become less competitive, like nemo 3, which would be a big shame.
|
|
zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
|
Post by zich on Apr 6, 2017 7:13:31 GMT
I kind of expect Storm Lances to be among the "other models" that will enter CID alongside the Banes later this month.
|
|
|
Post by pangurban on Apr 6, 2017 7:36:06 GMT
Y'know, that could happen. I would hope they only drop half of her electrocharger rule. I've thought on this a bit, and I'd like to hear some oppinions on it. What if the rules in the storm division theme excluded the squire and junior from free solos? Like, they'd still be allowed in the theme, but not eligible to be free. Then you get free... Stormblade captains and Acosta? Woo? A lot of lists which aren't "just throw storm man's at them" become less competitive, like nemo 3, which would be a big shame. Or Stormsmiths. Or Jakes. I know nobody takes them, but you still could. Still free points, just not the free points you want most. It's not going to happen though, the standard is "or other small-based solo" and PP isn't going to mess with that. They're more likely to remove access to one or more solos from the theme altogether, and they're not going to do that here either. Can we (the collective we, not you in particular Octavius) step back from the doomsaying just a tiny bit though? I don't mind cautioning players against putting all their eggs in a single overpowered basket that's likely to get nerfed, but the majority of PP's Mk III nerfs have been fairly measured and the really heavy-handed ones came down with the first errata after something was found to be a problem. Storm Lances already are not in that boat, or they would have gotten their nerf earlier. Chances of PP overcorrecting them are really slim.
|
|
|
Post by maVoo on Apr 6, 2017 8:40:15 GMT
I may be voicing the boring, age-old, clichéd view here, but I would seriously recommend you buy what you like the look of. Seriously, it's a better piece of advice than trying to predict potential nerfs. Buy what you like and will be happy building/painting/looking at.
For example, in my days as both a Merc and a Cygnar player, I bought 2 units of Precursor Knights as well as Constance Blaize. Yeah. They work for both factions and I really liked the models (especially the CA). I spent a lot of time painting them and trying to make them work and just enjoyed them.
I now know through my own trial and error that Precursors just simply aren't all that great and are very hard to make work in most lists. However, I like them and so I don't feel like I've made a terrible purchase as I've got my moneys worth out of them in entertainment. Furthermore, they could still be a workable/good/great option again at some point as the buff/nerf cycle ever turns.
If you happen to like the Stormlances as they fit your playstyle anyway, and you like the models, go for it. A minor nerf is a likely bet in the near future, but I don't think PP will gut them.
|
|
ware86
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
|
Post by ware86 on Apr 7, 2017 16:30:27 GMT
If you play in a competitive meta, please don't buy models you just like the look of. Start with a(or two) good 75 point list(s) (if you can't find somebody who starts at lower point levels with you) and then shop into stuff that you like the look of. Saw too many players leaving the game, because they were faulting their first purchases being bad, they could not compete because of them and also these people didn't want to buy into new stuff because they bought a bunch of "unuseable" models for hundreds of $ already.
|
|
|
Post by darkshroud on Apr 7, 2017 18:50:22 GMT
You'll be safe purchasing one of anything. Every model has a place in at least a couple of specific list builds, so nerfs only really hurt if you've bought several affected models and based your collection around them. Also, in MKIII Privateer Press has been fairly modest with their nerfs, and most units are still played after their rules are changed. lol - every cryx player
|
|
|
Post by pangurban on Apr 7, 2017 19:52:05 GMT
You'll be safe purchasing one of anything. Every model has a place in at least a couple of specific list builds, so nerfs only really hurt if you've bought several affected models and based your collection around them. Also, in MKIII Privateer Press has been fairly modest with their nerfs, and most units are still played after their rules are changed. lol - every cryx player There's a difference between new edition rules and errata. New edition rules don't happen every few months, and they're more or less a promise of how a model is going to work for at least several years. Errata aren't supposed to change that to a significant degree. Now, sure, the change to Mk III wasn't kind to Cryx and there have been a few rather too heavy-handed errata as well but the chance of any given model getting nerfed into the ground now is nonetheless quite small.
|
|
|
Post by pangurban on Apr 7, 2017 20:07:19 GMT
If you play in a competitive meta, please don't buy models you just like the look of. Start with a(or two) good 75 point list(s) (if you can't find somebody who starts at lower point levels with you) and then shop into stuff that you like the look of. Saw too many players leaving the game, because they were faulting their first purchases being bad, they could not compete because of them and also these people didn't want to buy into new stuff because they bought a bunch of "unuseable" models for hundreds of $ already. As a new player, you're not very likely to have a lot of insight into whether a model is going to work well for you and what makes lists tick competitively beyond broad strokes. That's nothing to be ashamed of, just a fase to go through. It means anything you buy might be a disappointment in terms of its effectiveness though. So, try stuff out first. Ask more experienced players. Don't just look at what gets played a lot, check why it gets played a lot an especially how it gets played. Borrow or proxy models. It's ok to buy models because they look cool too. I have a Storm Raptor, and I don't even play Circle. I buy every caster of every faction I do play regardless of whether I actually want to play them specifically: I simply want to own all of them period. But in terms of models in your collection you want to get a return on your investment from with regards to playing them competitively, do your homework before opening your wallet.
|
|
|
Post by maVoo on Apr 7, 2017 22:46:05 GMT
If you play in a competitive meta, please don't buy models you just like the look of. Start with a(or two) good 75 point list(s) (if you can't find somebody who starts at lower point levels with you) and then shop into stuff that you like the look of. Saw too many players leaving the game, because they were faulting their first purchases being bad, they could not compete because of them and also these people didn't want to buy into new stuff because they bought a bunch of "unuseable" models for hundreds of $ already. I stand by my comment recommending buying what you like the look of. That means the models themselves and the rules that accompany them. Buy the things that grab you. You are spending your money, time and effort on a GAME. With that said, I'm not in a hugely competitive meta and so I'm lucky I don't need to conform to certain models and lists to prove myself. Telling someone to start with a good 75 point list or two just seems terrible advice. If noone is willing to have smaller point games with a new person, then that meta is awful and 'buying good lists' will make no difference. Losing, getting pissed off and potentially leaving the game will still happen. That depends on the individual's attitude and how well they learn from their losses. It is my opinion that people will stick with the game longer if they're having fun trying to make models they like work. Sometimes they'll succeed, sometimes they won't (My PK example), but if they like their miniatures, they will have a better shot of 'getting into it'. You say that you've seen people leave the game because they couldn't compete with their lacklustre, "unusable" models. I have too and it's a fair point you raise. However, I've seen too many people leave the game because they got sick of playing generic themes, cookie cutter lists or only models that were deemed 'good' by the most competitive players. Quick note - I play a quite lot. Not as much as I'd like, but enough. With that said, I'm more a painter/modeller at heart - so visual appeal is a bigger factor for me as it's not all about placing 1st at competitive events. I spend too much time lovingly building and painting my purchases to care if online user 123's definition of good matches mine.
|
|
ware86
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
|
Post by ware86 on Apr 8, 2017 0:35:41 GMT
I would simply start with using lists of any high placed tournament player (discountgames) of my faction. And choose the one that played two lists, who have the most overlap in models . Of course you will have no practice and so on... but you will learn the most important lecture. It is not the list it's you ! Also those models will probably see play in many lists and are a good investment . Buying models that are really low, on the power curve, should be something for later, when you really know what you are buying. Painting these up and realising you will never want to play them, can completely destroy any motivation. And I would chose a faction I like the look of the strong models. Not the look of those I will never want to play. This game is a investment of hundreds of dollars. Everyone should do some work, before he buys into a faction.
In most competitive metas you will easily find players who will teach you the game and play some low point games. In the end most of them also will have a hard time playing too many games each week and will want to practice tournament point levels. Every game below is, at some point, a waste of your time (to get yourself further). While I would agree that, if you can , you should start at lower points, I really don't believe it is too hard to start at 75 points. You will lose a lot and you will be overwhelmed, but if you can play your first few games against some of the best players of your local meta, games you should expect to lose, even against semi experienced players, you will learn a ton. Also the better competitive players are often willingly helping to really understand their list and yours ( they often have the experience to explain and teach even the lists they are playing against). Most of them will have fun talking in depth about the game and teach the small quirks ,tricks and stuff(again of their list and yours).
It is easy to understand , if you want to be the best you'll need the best to learn against and it's a good investment of your time to teach as much as you know so you'll have maybe soon more opponents that can teach you new stuff.
|
|
|
Post by maVoo on Apr 8, 2017 3:13:28 GMT
Posted a reply but deleted it as my point is to buy what you like. Ultimately, if what you like is the ultra-competitive tournament scene and the lists that play well in that environment then go for it. It's not how I approach purchases for the game - but each to their own. It's widely know that there is the top end competitive scene, casual players and everything in between. Choose your purchases accordingly. The one thing that is constant though is that further purchases and more $$$ will always be required if you get into the game seriously, as there will always be something else you like aesthetically and there will always be a model/unit that outperforms the others. Whether this is due to new releases/errata/versions/whatever - the result is still the same - a weeping wallet!
|
|
|
Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 10, 2017 7:27:00 GMT
I agree that you should buy what you like, but that you should also do some homework about it. Buying stuff that you just want to play is a motivation in itself, but losing all the time isn't fun for anyone (even though you will probably lose most of the time in your first year if you play against experienced people) It's always a good idea to start small and expand, play each point level 2-3 times and then move up. This way you get a feel for the army and the models you're playing and get more insight into the game to help your decision of buying more. For instance, you start with the battle box, then add a solo and unit to get to 15-25 points, then move up to 50, then buy a second caster, then 75.
This might be a "waste of time" for competitive players, but in the long run it is an investment. Of course, if you keep wanting to play at 25 points forever, they will eventually lose their interest, but none of them should think it beneath them to help a new player get into the game.
In this particular case, after the battle box, you could buy 1 unit of Stormlances, and a Journeyman Warcaster with a light jack (all of them are pretty good in Cygnar). Even if they get toned down, you will never regret having Stormlances with Maddox and the Journeyman is a staple in many lists. Stormlances also dig themselves some Arcane Shield. After that you can season to taste.
|
|