blade
Demo Gamer
Posts: 17 
|
Post by blade on Apr 5, 2017 14:24:13 GMT
Hey guys and gals, Long time wargamer but FNG to warmahordes. I've been lurking for awhile on these and some other forums. And reading/watching bat reps, I think I'm ready to get my feet wet, but I'm also pretty hesitant. My local meta is mostly competitive regulars that play 75pts. I've decided I'd like to give cygnar a go and picked up the battle box. I'll start testing the paint scheme I wanna use while planning out purchases etc. that being said I'm hesitant to buy in on some stuff (mainly stormlances) cause I'm hearing that the are gonna get nerfed etc etc. now I don't personally know enough to say they need a nerf or not. But from what I hear PP never tones a model down a little, when hey nerf stuff they smash it real good. So I'm concerned that not only will that unit get nerf batted super hard but it will dramatically change the landscape of cygnar list building and by cause and effect also make other purchases a poor choice like if lances get smashed laddermore is gonna see little to no table time, some casters may take very different lists which would change a lot of what I've been planning on buying/playing
Some I'm wondering is this common? Should I not be buying competitive cygnar stuff right now ? And if so how long should I expect to wait before buying is "safe"
|
|
Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103
|
Post by Tucker on Apr 5, 2017 14:37:57 GMT
You'll be safe purchasing one of anything. Every model has a place in at least a couple of specific list builds, so nerfs only really hurt if you've bought several affected models and based your collection around them.
Also, in MKIII Privateer Press has been fairly modest with their nerfs, and most units are still played after their rules are changed.
|
|
|
|
Post by Anonymous on Apr 5, 2017 14:46:42 GMT
As stated, purchasing one of anything is a safe bet. While models may be brought down, models also often get brought up. It is regularly more egregious models that get looked at and brought down more than others. Additionally, there is often shock when something that is amazingly good is nerfed because it just isn't as strong (which is often the point there).
Some things get harder than others, for sure, but that's often to bring them in line and hopefully open up room for other models that may not see any time. I'm in agreement that most of the time, things are modestly done.
|
|
zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
|
Post by zich on Apr 5, 2017 14:56:13 GMT
Your worries are understandable. We currently have no information on what kind of nerfs - if any - are planned for powerful models. The most recent round of nerfs (affecting Una2 and High Reclaimer) were very reasonable, while the round before that (affecting the Mad Dog most notably) were not.
I also object to the statement that every model has its place. There are some really bad options out there and telling you otherwise I find very dishonest. For example I will tell you right now that Precursors are horrible, don't get them.
That said, let me shed some optimism. Most changes PP makes to the game are very good. I personally own Storm Lances and am not worried they'll become useless. I might even play them once I get bored with the new and very well balanced Skorne, which PP rebalanced recently. If you want to stay on the safe side though, get some Trencher Infantry, some more jacks and a few solos and you'll have enough to play and paint for a few months at least.
Also, even if the guys at your club are used to competitive 75p games, tell them to play a few smaller games with you. If they don't ease new players into the game, their player pool will stop growing and might even die out.
|
|
|
|
Post by cainuslupus on Apr 5, 2017 15:19:37 GMT
Again, what guys before said. Stormalances are most likelly going to see some nerf (direct or not) but having one unit won't hurt you and they would have to really crush them to make them bad option to take (right now they are great against infantry, hard targets and way too survivable, while having great mobility). Just taking two of them and Laddermore might not be the best option everywhere (just limited to specific builds).
Also, bad models get buffs, direct or by Themes. I'm playing Legion and one thing that new Themes brought for us is Hexhunter buff (mostly in Oracle). With free 6 points UA AND Apparition rule they are kinda OK for 15 points (which says a lot about how bad were they when you needed to pay 21 points for full package without Apparition).
Don't get discouraged by preemptive whining of some players, there are people who claim to this day Una2 was OK and shouldn't be nerfed. Some models are too good or have some weird interactions (Vayl2 + Hellmouth for instance) so nerfs will happen from time to time. And frankly, since you're just begining start small and see what works for you. Don't try to buy into victories, it doesn't work and I've many times seen fresh players with skewed meta list losing all they games with more experienced ones. Start small, built your forces step by step and keep in mind it will take time until you become competent in this game.
Since meta shifts naturally with new casters and other models, Themes and format changes worrying about buying meta list is kinda silly. Just don't do it. Chances are, when you'll become proficient enough to capitalize on that list it might be outdated, not necessarilly by nerfs but because people built new lists that are better or counter yours.
|
|
princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
|
Post by princeraven on Apr 5, 2017 15:45:20 GMT
You're just getting into the game, put your money towards flexible choices that fit into a variety of lists and stuff that works well with the casters you already have. You can worry about the competitive scene when you get there.
|
|
|
|
Post by tiberius on Apr 5, 2017 15:49:26 GMT
I concur with the above, don't invest in spam lists, look for more flexible choices or a theme that you really like (for example if you love gun mages) then go heavy into that theme as there are typically lots of unit/solos and support for about anything. I cant really speak to what is very good in cygnar but purchasing advice in general, don't buy into the janky spam lists and you will be fine. Most stuff can be used or be useful in various lists.
|
|
blade
Demo Gamer
Posts: 17
|
Post by blade on Apr 5, 2017 16:24:18 GMT
Thanks for he feedback guys, it's appreciated. Just as a glimpse behind my curtain, I was planning on running nemo3, I LOVE the way lances look and have always enjoyed fast hard hitting units (in my other games) honestly I alllllmost decided to play skorne mak2 double ferox. But I like cygnars aethstetic more which is why I went that way. But I feel like what I'm hearing is don't buy double lances cause it's "jank" ?
Is nemo3 with double lances like crazy op definitely getting nerfed then? Cause I don't want to play some crazy op stuff that getting hammered in3 months. But I DO want to play something fast and super hard hitting. As I typically prefer to play an attrition style game. Which is what drew me to nemo3 ... it seems good as an all comers list (as close as can reasonably be expected) it has brutal feat turn and can attrition well.
Should I be avoiding this?
|
|
|
|
Post by tiberius on Apr 5, 2017 16:42:20 GMT
If that is what you want to play, then play it, they will continue to be strong regardless of what does or doesn't happen to them. Double cavalry lists can certainly work and the storm lances are currently on top. I don't see them getting really nerfed. If anything, maybe a slight point increase or something, but I don't see what they could do to them to really tone them down without completely ruining them. Its an expensive investment for two units of cavalry, but no one is going to tell you not to do it. By spamming janky lists, I was more referring to the previous Karchev/mad dogs and Una 2/griffons. Stuff like that.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aegis on Apr 5, 2017 16:46:53 GMT
Lances are definidetly the best unit in the game at the moment, and Nemo3 is getting a lot of shine thanks to the Storm Division theme force that lets him pick pretty much everything he would want to pick while also giving him tons of extra points.
I play Cygnar and Nemo3 was my main caster since its release in MK2, and I can say: Feel free to pick him and an unit of Lances, PP would have to screw pretty bad to make a single unit of them useless, but don't buy the second unit yet, as a nerf is likely and after the nerf it wouldn't be sure that they remain good enough to be played in double amounts.
P.S.: I also agree that sadly there are useless options around. For Cygnar, at the moment the units that fall in those category are for sure Stormguards, Precursors and probably most Gun Mages units. Do yourself a favor and avoid them until PP decides to fix them.
|
|
blade
Demo Gamer
Posts: 17
|
Post by blade on Apr 5, 2017 18:39:31 GMT
When would the nerf for lances be coming? If I was gonna wait to see before buying how long of a wait should I expect ?
|
|
|
|
Post by pangurban on Apr 5, 2017 19:45:58 GMT
If Storm Lances get nerfed it'll likely happen in the next major round of errata, which should be released June-ish.
Nemo3 double Lances is certainly very good, but Nemo3 with a single unit of Lances is pretty close. I usually go with a Storm Strider over a second unit of Storm Lances myself, but then I do like that Strider.
As others have said, don't try to jump in at 75 points anyway. Start a bit smaller and work your way up. Proxy and/or borrow some models as well, this shouldn't be an issue for friendly pick-up games at the store. Experiment with your list composition, don't restrict yourself to just the models you own until you built a decent collection.
|
|
|
|
Post by octaviusmaximus on Apr 5, 2017 23:12:49 GMT
Nemo 3 has lost a lot of use since the shield guard trick has started to circulate and people have been working on shooting back hard, imo.
Im not so sure what to look into if you want power that has a low chance of being nerfed.
My top lists/casters are:
-Maddox (Storm Lances)
-Nemo 3 (Storm Lances)
-Haley 3 (Storm lances, but not necessary. Most resistant to change in faction).
-Haley 2 heavy metal (Haley 2 is always on the table).
-stryker 1 heavy metal
So currently Haley 3 and Stryker 1 provide the best intersection of power with least chance if getting nerfed.
I would hope that PP doesn't crush lances and buffs other models, but its still a fear.
|
|
|
|
Post by oncomingstorm on Apr 6, 2017 0:03:57 GMT
At this point, no one can say whether you can/should invest in stormlances, or any other 'competitive' model. Previously, PP has been known to make sweeping/crushing nerfs to too powerful models (mad dogs, Gaspy2, Scarsfells) as well as nerfs that people are STILL trying to figure out the logic behind (Haley1...) However, with the new CID, there's the possibility that the nerfs will be more tempered by the transparency of the process/higher numbers of playtesters, so I'm hopeful it'll be better.
Personally, at the moment I'm following the following rules:
1. I'm not buying into spam (I never have, but especially lately, with the nerf to mad dogs, griffons, and before that to woldwatchers...just no.)
2. I'm strongly considering not buying ANYTHING until the first round of general CID/errata is at least underway - Grymkin CID is fine and all, but no one has a horse in that race as of yet, and I want to see how things are handled when we're talking about models that people already own and love. In particular, I want to know what's on the list of 'other models' besides Banes and Battle Engines.
|
|
|
|
Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Apr 6, 2017 0:32:02 GMT
For Cygnar presently, I think you are safe in buying casters (haley1 was weird, but I think that now with CID it shouldn't happen again), solos, and jacks. By popular oppinion, none of these things are overly powerful in the current game.
|
|
