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Post by jediguru on Mar 7, 2018 13:39:48 GMT
I posted this up on the Fb page as well but wanted to get a discussion started here too.
Started playing the following list and it's a lot of fun and fairly potent into it's intended matchups. Putting Vayl back on the table is a fun change of pace and gives me warm Mk 2 fuzzy feelings.
So, who else has been trying a similar build with Vayl 1 and what has been your experience with it?
I'm still getting used to what the list handles well and what it doesn't. Any thoughts on what to pair with it?
Legion Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Oracles of Annihilation
(Vayl 1) Vayl, Disciple of Everblight [+27]
- Angelius [17]
- Angelius [17]
- Neraph [12]
- Seraph [14]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion [0(6)]
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion [0(6)]
The Forsaken [0(4)]
Blackfrost Shard [9]
Throne of Everblight [16]
Throne of Everblight [16]
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danx
Junior Strategist
Posts: 120
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Post by danx on Mar 7, 2018 15:40:21 GMT
I really like Hex Hunters with Vayl1. They get a high volume of attacks with Battle wizard if their power 12's can kill stuff, and Shadowbind combined with her feat is quite fun. They run up to the thing, hit it and then walk away. if the thing is a battle engine or Cav model it can't shake so isn't going anywhere.
Other than that - I think the flying stuff may well be pretty good. I'm a bit worried about the total damage - I wonder if Carnvians/Sytheans/Ravagores might be better. Arching fire Ravagores sound a lot of fun.
But How does it play is it fun?
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Post by jediguru on Mar 7, 2018 16:03:23 GMT
I can see HH being a thing.
Damage is certainly not an issue. Under Incite or Kiss, Angels are P+S 16 w/ free charges, Thrones are P+S 18. Under both they get to 18 and 20 respectively. The carni chassis is too slow to benefit well from the feat IMO.
So far I've only gotten 4 games in with it but it's been very solid. The thrones are amazing as they can affect things at 4" away and back up 5 under the feat. Also under Incite or Kiss, their sprays or eruption of spines can do a ton of work even against higher armor targets like cav. Angels bring a lot of utility as usual but can one round heavies in this list unlike most of the time. Vayl has more protection when moving up to cast Incite with the thrones and/or Angels being able to back up during the feat to block off LOS to her. I usually try to make sure to use the Seraph late on an incite turn after Vayl has activated and everything has benefitted from Incite in order to slipstream here back 2".
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 7, 2018 21:41:34 GMT
This is a great list. Frustrates me that it leans so heavily on huge bases that I'm too cheap to buy but... Its still a great way to make Vayl 1 work
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Post by snotling on Mar 8, 2018 5:51:36 GMT
I play quite similar lists with her, double thrones+double heavys. I think after the cid i will prefer carnis or ravagores with her, depending on the matchup. Do you not miss the naga with her?
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 8, 2018 6:20:10 GMT
I... still don't want to fork out for a second throne. I don't like the default pose but I don't want to do another big conversion job. I'd be more curious if players really feel that x2 throne is really needed, especially after our CID with the 16 point slot now including the ravagore and scythean?
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Post by jediguru on Mar 8, 2018 14:14:52 GMT
I play quite similar lists with her, double thrones+double heavys. I think after the cid i will prefer carnis or ravagores with her, depending on the matchup. Do you not miss the naga with her? Even after cid drops I think Angels are better for this list then the carni chassis. Carni chassis is just too slow, doesn't get enough movement on the feat turn. If you're playing Vayl 1 as your high armor cracking list, I can see taking carnis or scytheans but some of our other locks do that job better. I don't miss the Naga, actually. Blessed weapons are nice but I find they would only really be necessary against things like arcane shield and blur (Cygnar) in which you wouldn't drop Vayl into anyways.
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Post by jediguru on Mar 8, 2018 14:20:10 GMT
I... still don't want to fork out for a second throne. I don't like the default pose but I don't want to do another big conversion job. I'd be more curious if players really feel that x2 throne is really needed, especially after our CID with the 16 point slot now including the ravagore and scythean? Are two thrones absolutely needed? Maybe but maybe not. I think they may synergize better with her than any of our other locks, actually. They love Chiller and Incite and while being only speed 5 they benefit greatly from the feat since they can be 4" away from their targets and back up 5. I do think that if you run only one that fast serpentine beasts are a must. On the feat turn you need to be able to back up and deny LOS to Vayl most of the time. Again, I'm only just trying out all this for the first time and experimenting but my theories on paper so far have been confirmed on the table.
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Post by davycannonhound on Mar 8, 2018 15:01:53 GMT
How do you feel about Vayl's Feat? I feel its basically useless.
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Post by jediguru on Mar 8, 2018 15:18:42 GMT
How do you feel about Vayl's Feat? I feel its basically useless. I'm not sure what to tell you if you think it's useless. This astounds me. What makes you think that? Her feat is a big reason why you would play her. When played well it can allow for a double alpha, more advantageous positioning, to jam, or all of the above. With the terrain rules in SR 17 it's probably better then its ever been before.
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Post by slaughtersun on Mar 8, 2018 15:35:30 GMT
Vayl1 was my favourite mk2 caster.
My list with her was tuned to almost perfection (for my playstyle at least) and when she got the adr treatment i could drop that list into anything by changung a few bits and bobs.
Her feat may seem simple on paper but its disgusting on the table. Unfortunately, her not moving adds a silly risk to an already easy to kill caster. The fact that dark sentinel with typhoon is a rarity makes it worst to play her and keep her safe.
I have though abou double thrones with her and will give it a go.
Btw for those that dont want to buy 2 thrones you can easilly make 2 thrones out of one kit... i've done it and they are really cool (imho).
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 9, 2018 0:26:47 GMT
How do you feel about Vayl's Feat? I feel its basically useless. I'm not sure what to tell you if you think it's useless. This astounds me. What makes you think that? Her feat is a big reason why you would play her. When played well it can allow for a double alpha, more advantageous positioning, to jam, or all of the above. With the terrain rules in SR 17 it's probably better then its ever been before. I think he might be confusing battle engines with colossals/gargantuans and being unable to move out of turn.
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Post by davycannonhound on Mar 9, 2018 5:55:49 GMT
How do you feel about Vayl's Feat? I feel its basically useless. I'm not sure what to tell you if you think it's useless. This astounds me. What makes you think that? Her feat is a big reason why you would play her. When played well it can allow for a double alpha, more advantageous positioning, to jam, or all of the above. With the terrain rules in SR 17 it's probably better then its ever been before. I have to tell you, you have a very unpopular opinion of her feat. Maybe most other people have just gotten very unlucky with games/you're getting very lucky.
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Post by snotling on Mar 9, 2018 6:07:20 GMT
I like her feat to. With thrones and sr17 terrain, its quite easy to keep her safe imo. Just dont force incite+feat. Alpha, feat, and then, when your opponent comes to you(because you backed up), incite becomes very easy to use. Bfs can also be very usefull for the first alpha, because with the feat, they may actually survive giving -2 arm on sonething. People hating vayl1 imo has a lot to do with: got worse: unplayable trash now.
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Post by althor on Mar 9, 2018 8:42:39 GMT
I never succeeded in using her feat, I'm not good enough. Wether I jam or back up, i find myself being slaughtered the next turn by whatever my opponent has still alive. so with my skillset, the feat is useless to me. But i'm sure an experienceed player will get use of it by removing the perfect counter attacking models.
so i went back to an average player caster ^^
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