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Post by Gavik Dross on Mar 7, 2017 13:14:00 GMT
The information has been out for a day now. I assume most have had some time to look over and ponder the rules, so what do we think?
Personally I'm not certain about the infantry options, they have price of elite troops, with relatively low defenses that seem to rely on the battle engine to survive. They are super cool however with lots of special rules for each unit. The pigs I feel will be the most stand out, with impervious flesh and snacking to keep them safe while vengeance, powerful charge and reach mean they can threaten most things. The battle engine needs corpses to function so without the theme you'll need to weather a round of shots before you can get juicy bodies, but it is cheap and pretty tanky so i can see it being solid. The beasts seem to be were they will shine, cheap shield guard lessers, some amazing solo hunting lights and decent (but few) heavies. I worry about the need for corpses on both heavies to make them work, meaning they will want to be near infantry with weapons that are really meant for heavies but we have a few ways of getting them bodies at least. Most of the solos are also amazing, Lord Longfellow seems legitimately terrifying on assassination , black penny RAT 7 boosted to hit and double boost damage (if they're damaged) is not to be trifled with. So we've seem the rules, pondered them. What do you all think?
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Post by sideshowlucifer on Mar 7, 2017 13:27:26 GMT
I actually think all the infantry have a place except the small based Cav. I'd rather have the pumpkin heads point for point. The biggest problem I see is the reliance on corpse tokens and no easy way to get them to some models or collect them in the current meta. The battle engine seems like a 12 point and monetarily expensive must-have in most lists, not for the ARM bonus, but for the corpse tokens.
The solos are crazy good, all of them.
Most of the Arcana seem to be able to protect the fragile infantry by way of deterrence. King of Nothing's major arcana though is just lacking in nearly every possible way.
The Caster themselves all seem really solid and fun to play, though the standouts to me are the Dreamer, Heretic, King of Nothing and Wanderer. The heretic's God-Like Power ability opens up a lot of weird interactions while the King of Nothing has some insane assassination vectors.
As far as beasts, Skin and Moans seems way too good with corpse tokens and less than effective without them. The Cage Rager is a bargain price while still retaining some hard hitting ability, but every special ability costs Corpse tokens, which I don't see flowing freely enough to use said abilities often enough. The lights are all fairly solid and perform the job they have pretty well. I love the Rattler and the Crabbit most of all. All in all, the beasts give access to some pretty good animus, mostly focused around doing things outside of activation.
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Post by levroll on Mar 7, 2017 15:28:24 GMT
There's a lot of good points there but it wasn't until you mentioned the assassination vectors that I really put it under scrutiny. I don't know how I didn't see what Sands of Fate, Scything Touch, and the King's aura could do before. And to think I was disappointed that his strongest spell was POW 12. Now I understand why.
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Post by Swampmist on Mar 7, 2017 15:53:09 GMT
Keep in mind that Scything cannot go on himself, as he has no melee range. But he does have some serious damage potential, yeah.
Also, Dread Rots are not even close to premium infantry price. 12 for 10 are quite possibly the cheapest WM infantry in the game if memory serves, which is actually nuts.
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Post by Harr0wed on Mar 7, 2017 16:57:11 GMT
Please forgive my ignorance, but where can I find this info?
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Post by levroll on Mar 7, 2017 17:11:39 GMT
They are on the CID forums but I have yet to even be able to finish registration. On the other hand, you can also find them on the traditional gaming portion of a certain online image board that begins with 4. That's where I got all the info.
And, yeah, I noticed that the King doesn't have a weapon. Pretty deliberately, it seems. But being able to get Cage Rager to PS 21 and Skin and Moans with no corpses up to 20 with Scything Touch is pretty great. Similar strategies get Murder Crows to PS 17 and even the Piggies get to 17, as well. The more I look at the King the more I like him. I'm starting to wonder whether the Crabits are necessary given the relative bulk of the list combined with his clouds.
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Post by Swampmist on Mar 7, 2017 17:20:22 GMT
I think the krabbits qare there for people to have cheap stuff to jam early with and force use out of his arcana.
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Post by levroll on Mar 7, 2017 17:32:30 GMT
That's another really good point. They can shield guard True Sight shots or be obnoxious body blockers that the King can punish you for destroying. I still can't believe that some of these arcana were written right. Taste of Ashes has no range. It's just the nearest d3 enemies for d3 damage. Kill the crabits and d3 single wounds get killed or other things just get dinged. And Shroud also having no range? So both armies, no matter where the models are, are automatically affected? The faction has some good options and it feels like the King especially has a large repertoire of powerful options.
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Post by crashark on Mar 7, 2017 19:07:45 GMT
Most of all I was afraid of the spider-shooter But it turned out just great. With Piggybacks, the opposite situation. From the whole range piglets did not like me most of all. But the more I look at the rules, the more I understand that I will have to buy them.
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Post by sideshowlucifer on Mar 7, 2017 20:52:12 GMT
Taste of Ashes is probably one of my least favorite of them. For not being Feats though, Feroa would love to have a word with the Child, who's one third of a non-feat does what Feroa's only feat does..lol
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 8, 2017 3:14:46 GMT
If anyone needs the PDFs, I have them on my drive.
I'm really liking the Wanderer's DEF skew shenanigans. What should I take with him?
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 8, 2017 3:16:53 GMT
They... bug me. I feel like they get a lot of generous rules for their points. I'm just shaking my head at Lady Rose right now. Their biggest drawback seems to be their mediocre statlines, but it's hard to tell at a glance if that will be enough to balance them off.
From a protectorate standpoint, I can't help but feel a bit bleak. They do a lot of my favorite protectorate themes of denial and anti-magic in way more interesting ways than the protectorate does.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 8, 2017 3:32:51 GMT
I'm thinking
Wanderer (+28) - Skin and Moans (0) - Skin and Moans (2) Death Knell - 13 Death Knell - 13 Dread Rots - 12 Dread Rots - 12 Hollow Men - 14 - Lantern Man - 4 Lady Kariana Rose - 4
Mostly using this because it's easy to sub in Bane Warriors for Dread Rots, Revenant Crew for Hollow Men, Goreshade as the Wanderer, and a Raider Captain for Lady Rose.
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Post by levroll on Mar 8, 2017 3:34:52 GMT
You aren't alone. Grymkin, rules-wise, really seem to emulate what I wanted out of Cryx in MK3. That's why I want to play them; because I don't play my Cryx any more because they just don't inspire me.
As for the Wanderer, I still haven't put much thought into it. Hollowmen are the easy answer, I think. They can give themselves concealment so Fog of War is less necessary than Star-Crossed and can be run in a theme where their CA is free. The same theme denies you Lady Rose, though, so you have no way of buffing the PS of beasts. Unit wise, I'm not sure there's really a bad option for him as Dread Rots and Piggybacks seem good, too.
Speaking of units, there's the Neigh Slayers. Still not sure about these guys.
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Post by CrazyUncleDouglas on Mar 8, 2017 4:08:20 GMT
Not sure how they'll play yet, but I love the theme oh so much I just must have this faction. It's going to be bad for me.
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