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Post by bloodhawk on Feb 20, 2018 4:55:50 GMT
yes, exactly what I mean btw. this is how I use it to trigger Heretics arcana I played the Dreamer again this weekend in round 5 of Polish Masters (btw I went 5:1, lost only in finals). It was the quickest game of the tournament. Una2 on spread the net and I won the start roll = win on scenario turn 3 Congrats on the result! What did you pair with Una2?
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Post by musza on Feb 20, 2018 8:19:51 GMT
Krueger2 BoO
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Post by vorage on Feb 20, 2018 22:24:58 GMT
Can you show us your list
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Post by musza on Feb 21, 2018 13:44:57 GMT
Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Krueger 2) Krueger the Stormlord [+27] - Megalith [20] - Wold Guardian [16] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Shifting Stones [3] Celestial Fulcrum [19]
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Post by bloodhawk on Feb 21, 2018 14:30:44 GMT
Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Krueger 2) Krueger the Stormlord [+27] - Megalith [20] - Wold Guardian [16] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Shifting Stones [3] Celestial Fulcrum [19] I have been running something very similar to that. K2 2x Warden 2x Wyrd 1x Guardian 3x Shaper 2x Blackclad 1x Gallows Grove 2x Sentry Stones 1x Shifting Stone 1x Fulcrum Do you feel that having the extra geomancy is worth going lighter on support?
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Post by musza on Feb 21, 2018 15:59:06 GMT
Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Krueger 2) Krueger the Stormlord [+27] - Megalith [20] - Wold Guardian [16] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Shifting Stones [3] Celestial Fulcrum [19] I have been running something very similar to that. K2 2x Warden 2x Wyrd 1x Guardian 3x Shaper 2x Blackclad 1x Gallows Grove 2x Sentry Stones 1x Shifting Stone 1x Fulcrum Do you feel that having the extra geomancy is worth going lighter on support? Yes, I do but I'm not the alpha&omega of this game so don't take this for granted. If I was to change something in the list it would be to swap Guardian for a Woldwyrd, Stones and a Mist Speaker but I'm not sure it's stronger, just different.
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Post by bloodhawk on Feb 21, 2018 18:43:18 GMT
I have been running something very similar to that. K2 2x Warden 2x Wyrd 1x Guardian 3x Shaper 2x Blackclad 1x Gallows Grove 2x Sentry Stones 1x Shifting Stone 1x Fulcrum Do you feel that having the extra geomancy is worth going lighter on support? Yes, I do but I'm not the alpha&omega of this game so don't take this for granted. If I was to change something in the list it would be to swap Guardian for a Woldwyrd, Stones and a Mist Speaker but I'm not sure it's stronger, just different. Haha, sure thing, but you have had success. It's always nice to pick the brain of someone who has been doing well Thanks for your feedback.
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Post by musza on Feb 22, 2018 13:33:38 GMT
Always happy to help. I would say - stick to what works for you and in your meta. My biggest problem with Krueger2 is that he is so difficult to play and so absorbing brain power that my performance is worse every game. Last masters finals was actually the worst performance I did that tournament. With the list I was trying to fix his weaknesses with a Wold Guardian (more armor cracking) but in the end I'm heading back towards more of a gunline style play with him. It is strong but feels a bit "undefinied" and I often loose the Guardian in a stupid way because I can't find a role for him in a game. Also, I suggest to pair Krueger2 with something easier to play with raw strength like Una2 or Bradigus (but this guy needs reps) for bigger events, just because he's so draining.
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Post by vorage on Mar 1, 2018 8:32:02 GMT
Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Krueger 2) Krueger the Stormlord [+27] - Megalith [20] - Wold Guardian [16] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Shifting Stones [3] Celestial Fulcrum [19] Thanks a lot for your link. My Krueger2's liste seems very similar: conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0p4a4QjFjF4H4Hg4g45gc9c95e5e5fi7Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Krueger 2) Krueger the Stormlord [+27] - Megalith [20] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Gallows Grove [2] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Shifting Stones [3] Celestial Fulcrum [19] I can't imagine play without 2 sentrys and a minimum of 2 woldwyrds (3 is the perfect number in my mind). Sentry aren't just one of the best enter of Boo? Mostly in a control list like Krueger ! In each if my games they do wonder in slow attrition and scoring/contesting. Regarding the woldwyrds, I find one is not enought to force the opponent to play around with his upkeep. Am I wrong? Did the guardian do the job you expect from him? He's slow, but tk and hunter's mark can probably do very well with him?
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Post by musza on Mar 1, 2018 8:46:22 GMT
Woldwyrd was just a bogey, not a real threat... but in latest Masters he assassinated Bradigus so he was quite effective. Guardian allows you to hit harder and provides beat back which can push heavy out of the zone so a good match for Krueger. Every approach to the list has its strengths and weaknesess and it's hard to discuss which choice is better without knowing the second list and the meta. Personally I'm happy with my list but I feel it needs some tweaks, probably double Woldwyrd is one
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Post by oncomingstorm on Mar 1, 2018 8:53:29 GMT
Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Krueger 2) Krueger the Stormlord [+27] - Megalith [20] - Wold Guardian [16] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Shifting Stones [3] Celestial Fulcrum [19] Thanks a lot for your link. My Krueger2's liste seems very similar: conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0p4a4QjFjF4H4Hg4g45gc9c95e5e5fi7Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Krueger 2) Krueger the Stormlord [+27] - Megalith [20] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Gallows Grove [2] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Shifting Stones [3] Celestial Fulcrum [19] I can't imagine play without 2 sentrys and a minimum of 2 woldwyrds (3 is the perfect number in my mind). Sentry aren't just one of the best enter of Boo? Mostly in a control list like Krueger ! In each if my games they do wonder in slow attrition and scoring/contesting. Regarding the woldwyrds, I find one is not enought tout force the opponent to play around with his upkeep. Am I wrong? Did the guardian do the job you expect from him? He's slow, but tk and hunter's mark can probably do very well with him? My list is very similar. pretty much just -1 sentry stone, -1 gallows grove, +1 shifting stones, +1 mist speaker. I find that the mist speaker is key for putting threat on stealthed casters and clearing cloud walls (pretty key in the Cygnar matchup). There are quite a few stealthy casters that can be reliably shot to death with a fulcrum...if it can see them. The second unit of shifting stones lets you use one more aggressively - I find that one of my sets is always dedicated to following the fulcrum around to give it pseudo lightning strike, and to allow it to project threat even further, but there are a lot of matchups where I also want something cheap n easy to use as targetting beacons for lightning storms, either to set up a non-go zone for infantry, or to get that AOE 3 to actually hit more than 2 models.
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Post by vorage on Mar 1, 2018 10:06:48 GMT
Woldwyrd was just a bogey, not a real threat... but in latest Masters he assassinated Bradigus so he was quite effective. Guardian allows you to hit harder and provides beat back which can push heavy out of the zone so a good match for Krueger. Every approach to the list has its strengths and weaknesess and it's hard to discuss which choice is better without knowing the second list and the meta. Personally I'm happy with my list but I feel it needs some tweaks, probably double Woldwyrd is one Ok, i see the idea with the wyrd, but wait, you win a krueger2/bradigus ? Brad have all krueger2 hate. Armor spaming, great threat rng and anti-magic tech, interresting by some back of the match🙂. Yes you have completely right, depend too of the gamestyle of each others. I always find 2 sentrys are a must have in a krueger2 list, but still my opinion😉. And force to admit this list wants to play a lot of things!
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Post by vorage on Mar 1, 2018 10:16:58 GMT
Thanks a lot for your link. My Krueger2's liste seems very similar: conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0p4a4QjFjF4H4Hg4g45gc9c95e5e5fi7Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Krueger 2) Krueger the Stormlord [+27] - Megalith [20] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Gallows Grove [2] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Shifting Stones [3] Celestial Fulcrum [19] I can't imagine play without 2 sentrys and a minimum of 2 woldwyrds (3 is the perfect number in my mind). Sentry aren't just one of the best enter of Boo? Mostly in a control list like Krueger ! In each if my games they do wonder in slow attrition and scoring/contesting. Regarding the woldwyrds, I find one is not enought tout force the opponent to play around with his upkeep. Am I wrong? Did the guardian do the job you expect from him? He's slow, but tk and hunter's mark can probably do very well with him? My list is very similar. pretty much just -1 sentry stone, -1 gallows grove, +1 shifting stones, +1 mist speaker. I find that the mist speaker is key for putting threat on stealthed casters and clearing cloud walls (pretty key in the Cygnar matchup). There are quite a few stealthy casters that can be reliably shot to death with a fulcrum...if it can see them. The second unit of shifting stones lets you use one more aggressively - I find that one of my sets is always dedicated to following the fulcrum around to give it pseudo lightning strike, and to allow it to project threat even further, but there are a lot of matchups where I also want something cheap n easy to use as targetting beacons for lightning storms, either to set up a non-go zone for infantry, or to get that AOE 3 to actually hit more than 2 models. I try the mist and he always was a dead weight, probably because i play him in wrong match. But if you say that he's good in the right match i trust you! Shifting are always good, i use them like you but prefer do my lightning storms wall with manikins since they'll come back later 😊
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Post by musza on Mar 1, 2018 11:13:55 GMT
Woldwyrd was just a bogey, not a real threat... but in latest Masters he assassinated Bradigus so he was quite effective. Guardian allows you to hit harder and provides beat back which can push heavy out of the zone so a good match for Krueger. Every approach to the list has its strengths and weaknesess and it's hard to discuss which choice is better without knowing the second list and the meta. Personally I'm happy with my list but I feel it needs some tweaks, probably double Woldwyrd is one Ok, i see the idea with the wyrd, but wait, you win a krueger2/bradigus ? Brad have all krueger2 hate. Armor spaming, great threat rng and anti-magic tech, interresting by some back of the match🙂. I did, I played for an assassination from the beginning knowing I'm screwed if it won't happen. You can see the game here: youtu.be/SNiMUdNyLyYI guess he wouldn't drop Bradius seeing 2 Wyrds so I was kinda happy there was one, haha! If you don't want to watch the whole video, in short the plan was to give him the Guardian and Megalith because they were worthless for my plan, to bait out his Guardians (unkillable shield guards). I left Wyrd and Fulcrum safe and hide Krueger2 far up front behind obstruction hidden behind my heavies, so I can get a TK range to Brad next turn. The matchup sucks if you look at it from attrition perspective but Bradigus's biggest weakness is he's super vulnerable to an assassination and if he wants to avoid one - he needs to sacrifice some alpha punch. He also cannot go without Synergy so Purgation is always on the table. If you want to go for an attirtion game it might be worth to just shoot him even with 5 fury just to soften his army with the transfers. Anyway, my opponent was using the exact same Bradigus list I was for a while and he had a carbon copy of my Una2 list from previous Masters (2 Pureblood, 7 Scarsfell, Wilder, Stones and 2 Wayfarers) so it was my biggest dvantage going into the game, to be honest. Regarding the Mist Speaker - I was in the same mindset as you vorage. He is useless for some MU but in some others you just can't go without him - Skarre1 and Una2 are ones I'd love him there. If your second list covers those MU well, I would drop him but otherwise he is an auto-include, I learned that lesson. It's a shame because we don't need magical weapons and it feels wrong to pay 4 points for just an eyeless sight. Lynuss and Endrea are a great alternative as they provide cloud removal, applied knowlage for Krueger and they are a unit so they can score circular zones. If Mist Speaker do not provide anything for the MU he can at least stay on a flag and use his cloud to trigger prowl but that's not worth 4 points for sure. As a general rule of thumb I think it's better to sacrifice a bit of the list power (like Sentry Stones) just to have a wider toolbox (like Mist Speaker provides) in a large meta (Masters) and usually not worth it for smaller meta (like a local Steamroller) if you know exactly what to expect (assuming he will be pretty much useless).
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