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Post by oncomingstorm on Feb 12, 2018 4:21:56 GMT
So, I've been playing against the Dreamer a fair bit recently, and while I've been fairly successful in my games against her, I've definitely felt like the wins I've gotten have been more down to misplays by the opponent and/or lucky dice than any particular good matchups on my part.
What have y'all been running into Grymkin (especially Dreamer) and what do you find works for you?
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Post by maplewhisky on Feb 12, 2018 4:33:38 GMT
I've only had one game, but my Krueger2 4 Heavies build felt pretty good.
Krueger2 -Megs -Guardian -2 Wardens -2 Wyrds 2 Sentries 2 Shifting Stones 2 Wayfarers 2 Shapers Chef
Enfeeble on my Guardian sucked. I played vs Dreamer with 2 S&M, 2 Ragers, a Rattler and a Gorehound, 4 Gremlins, min Dread Rots & the Engine. Oh and 2 Crabbits. He played Ruin & Sacrifice. I think Sacrifice was a mistake. Enfeeble on my Guardian sucked. The game basically came down though to me not giving him any corpses (and I got a cool play where I put Lightning Storm on a Dread Rot and blew 4 other Dread Rots into the aoe, killing 3 and denying more corpses!), overloading the Cage Ragers and generally not really minding much of his stuff?
Like it's a list of slow models, it's not hard for Bones to clear out contesting Gremlins with Mannikins, TK is exceptionally good vs heavies without Mirage and I could easily throw out enough to overload the 2 Cage Ragers. Scenario was a huge issue for him all game, as were my threat ranges and ability to TK his heavies around. I tried my absolute best to just ignore his Dread Rots which was made easy by Rebuke and my feat / lightning storm.
I ended up winning 8-3 on scenario with a fairly sizable attrition lead. But it was both of our first time's playing the matchup, I'm keen to hear how other people have found the game, I don't get much Grymkin practice!
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Post by oncomingstorm on Feb 12, 2018 5:28:55 GMT
I've only had one game, but my Krueger2 4 Heavies build felt pretty good. Krueger2 -Megs -Guardian -2 Wardens -2 Wyrds 2 Sentries 2 Shifting Stones 2 Wayfarers 2 Shapers Chef Enfeeble on my Guardian sucked. I played vs Dreamer with 2 S&M, 2 Ragers, a Rattler and a Gorehound, 4 Gremlins, min Dread Rots & the Engine. Oh and 2 Crabbits. He played Ruin & Sacrifice. I think Sacrifice was a mistake. Enfeeble on my Guardian sucked. The game basically came down though to me not giving him any corpses (and I got a cool play where I put Lightning Storm on a Dread Rot and blew 4 other Dread Rots into the aoe, killing 3 and denying more corpses!), overloading the Cage Ragers and generally not really minding much of his stuff? Like it's a list of slow models, it's not hard for Bones to clear out contesting Gremlins with Mannikins, TK is exceptionally good vs heavies without Mirage and I could easily throw out enough to overload the 2 Cage Ragers. Scenario was a huge issue for him all game, as were my threat ranges and ability to TK his heavies around. I tried my absolute best to just ignore his Dread Rots which was made easy by Rebuke and my feat / lightning storm. I ended up winning 8-3 on scenario with a fairly sizable attrition lead. But it was both of our first time's playing the matchup, I'm keen to hear how other people have found the game, I don't get much Grymkin practice! Hmm. Krueger2 was my thought, as well. I've been running a similar list - Fulcrum instead of the Guardian, Mist Speaker instead of one of the Sentry Stones, and felt like it was a very difficult matchup. You can deny corpses, for sure, but hitting the Skin and Moans in Artifice of Deviation is a pain in the ass.
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Post by musza on Feb 12, 2018 11:52:57 GMT
I played against her 3 times now with Una2 in Call of the Wild. Won all 3 games and it felt super strong into her. Try it
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Post by maplewhisky on Feb 12, 2018 12:11:01 GMT
I played against her 3 times now with Una2 in Call of the Wild. Won all 3 games and it felt super strong into her. Try it I have a question re: una cotw, cause I was running that alongside Krueger for a while. See in your games where you drop Una and they drop the other list than what you expected. Like you expect Dreamer and they drop OW3 Bump, or you expect Karchev and they drop Irusk2 etc how do those games normally go? That kept happening to me and really soured me on her. When my PoM opponent just started dropping Thyra instead of Amon, for examppe. ):
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Post by musza on Feb 13, 2018 8:34:07 GMT
OW3 is large base so it's super easy to get Griffins into her. I recently played PoM ad finished of Thyra with CK turn 2 . Those matchups you mentioned are theoretical and you are in the same situation as your op. If I have Krueger/Una and see a Dreamer/OW I'd probably take Krueger. If I see Irusk/Karchev I definitely take Krueger (depends on a scenario but I played Karchev many times with Krueger and always same result - scenario win). So... right decision is important here but if I fail I usually take risk and play for assassination.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Feb 13, 2018 9:22:08 GMT
I played against her 3 times now with Una2 in Call of the Wild. Won all 3 games and it felt super strong into her. Try it Hmmm. I think I need to try this. On the face of it, it seems like I wouldn't winning on attrition, since I'd likely be losing 2-3 griffons for every Skin n Moans I can take down. Any tips for the matchup?
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Feb 13, 2018 10:37:51 GMT
Really depends on your style of Una2.
You can play the one-trick-pony of 10 Griffons (not my style at all), in which case it's all about attrition and dice.
You can play out of theme with 2 Wyrds, 6 birds and a fulcrum (I love this list) plus something. Really strong shooting game, but that's usually a risky proposition Vs grymkin. Still, if you can isolate targets that only have one crabbit you should get solid value out of the guns.
I've even played with only 5 birds and the Wyrd/fulcrum boat plus a unit of reeves for hot-swapping HoF, but it's really unforgiving. Should be fine into grymkin, but anything that can shoot out a stealthy budgie is gonna really give you fits.
You can go Tharn theme with feasty and some ravagers who all love HoF, although that's less fantastic into dreamer menagerie (really good into dreamer Bump...).
Honestly it's your flavour of Una that matters the most. The above are just the flavours I've played with - her battlegroup writes itself, but HoF means she can branch out into a lot of directions after that.
-und_ed
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Post by musza on Feb 13, 2018 23:20:29 GMT
I played against her 3 times now with Una2 in Call of the Wild. Won all 3 games and it felt super strong into her. Try it Hmmm. I think I need to try this. On the face of it, it seems like I wouldn't winning on attrition, since I'd likely be losing 2-3 griffons for every Skin n Moans I can take down. Any tips for the matchup? You have a lot longer threat ranges so don't alpha until he gives you most of the army, be patient. Also, I like to bait out the trump arcana and back off. The key is not to use your FEAT until it's something he cannot retaliate from, but until it comes, just take your time and kill the support with a Pureblood sprays, Una's gun (not Gremlin Swarms tho, they're stealth) and Blackclads (and phase jump back to safety). I played The Dreamer (DM) in Polish Masters against WTC player. It was my 7-Griffons, double Gorax, double Pureblood list. After the game my opponent said he tried to play into Una few times and it's always bad if Una player don't forget about arcana or do a big placement mistake.
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Post by bloodhawk on Feb 16, 2018 23:52:21 GMT
Hmmm. I think I need to try this. On the face of it, it seems like I wouldn't winning on attrition, since I'd likely be losing 2-3 griffons for every Skin n Moans I can take down. Any tips for the matchup? You have a lot longer threat ranges so don't alpha until he gives you most of the army, be patient. Also, I like to bait out the trump arcana and back off. The key is not to use your FEAT until it's something he cannot retaliate from, but until it comes, just take your time and kill the support with a Pureblood sprays, Una's gun (not Gremlin Swarms tho, they're stealth) and Blackclads (and phase jump back to safety). I played The Dreamer (DM) in Polish Masters against WTC player. It was my 7-Griffons, double Gorax, double Pureblood list. After the game my opponent said he tried to play into Una few times and it's always bad if Una player don't forget about arcana or do a big placement mistake. I am curious what you mean by Blackclads phase jumping back to safety. They can't attack and phase jump in the same turn, is there something I am missing? Thanks for the tips on Una. I have been looking at the 7 Griffon version for a while, but haven't given it a shot yet. Sounds really fun and solid. Also, seems like a really nice pair with K2 bones, which is my current favorite <3.
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Post by maplewhisky on Feb 17, 2018 0:42:59 GMT
bloodhawk They can charge a model, kill it with their axe and battle wizard phase jump to safety.
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Post by bloodhawk on Feb 17, 2018 0:51:59 GMT
bloodhawk They can charge a model, kill it with their axe and battle wizard phase jump to safety. That explains it! Evidently I haven't been playing with MkIII blackclads yet. I look forward to giving them a go
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Post by musza on Feb 19, 2018 22:09:31 GMT
yes, exactly what I mean btw. this is how I use it to trigger Heretics arcana I played the Dreamer again this weekend in round 5 of Polish Masters (btw I went 5:1, lost only in finals). It was the quickest game of the tournament. Una2 on spread the net and I won the start roll = win on scenario turn 3
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Post by kuririnad on Feb 20, 2018 0:36:06 GMT
Grats on the tournament finish!
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Post by oncomingstorm on Feb 20, 2018 2:04:20 GMT
yes, exactly what I mean btw. this is how I use it to trigger Heretics arcana I played the Dreamer again this weekend in round 5 of Polish Masters (btw I went 5:1, lost only in finals). It was the quickest game of the tournament. Una2 on spread the net and I won the start roll = win on scenario turn 3 Ugh, I hate using Blackclads to remove gremlins...rolling a 6 to hit always feels so dicey, when failure means giving away a key solo... Honestly, between how clutch it can be to trigger sprint reliably, and how little I like relying on those boosted 6s, I'm very tempted to find room for some form of puppet master in the list...
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