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Post by ikeda on Feb 9, 2018 16:24:28 GMT
I stopped playing D3 with the plethora of Grevious Wounds and Mortality limiting pretty much all the lists. More power to those playing him but I want a feat the actually hits when I fire it.
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Post by robbleyourworld on Feb 9, 2018 16:38:46 GMT
I brought up Ragnor as an alternative to what you've presented here because he's bringing something very similar to what doomy3 provides albeit a little different. Doomy3 only brings a mini-feat for his infantry as his feat only effects his battle group while Ragnor supports BOTH your beasts and infantry so if you want to bring a combined list with beasts and infantry he does it well. You characterized Ragnor as a PoD caster because thats what most people have presented him as but I'll tell you from experience he does good things with our heavy infantry (think 3 warders taking 2 focus loaded heavies to clear). For a list like this I just think ragnor is going to be the better fit, he's going to provide more support for the entire army, has upkeep removal, and is far more survivable. Yes you lose some awesome spells from doomy3's card but its not like Ragnor has a bad spell list. something like this seems to do what you're looking for far better. It provides the same tools that the Doomy3 list presented but synergizes better. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0afL0r9DiR0hjq6Ghm6R0l0mc8cBTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes (Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Gremlin Swarm [3] Troll Whelps [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Sons of Bragg [11] Trollkin Warders (max) [17] I've been dojoing Ragnor with infantry a bit in this thread lormahordes.freeforums.net/post/79161/threadAnd as two side notes. I don't see the axer as a rush stick but I'm willing to pay 10 for him because of rush if I already have rush available he seems expensive to me. Also I applaud thinking outside of the internet hive-mind I just dont' think the old Doomy3 list will work very well.
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Post by ninjastars on Feb 9, 2018 17:25:46 GMT
Well now you’re just making Ragnor lists.
My theory is Ragnor is the curse of trolls, because he’s both our most boring and most versatile warlock.
Other warlocks are much better into certain situations, but Ragnor is good into the widest variety of situations, so any time you start thinking of counterfactuals, like “what if they have grievous wounds?!” You end up back at Ragnor.
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Post by robbleyourworld on Feb 9, 2018 17:45:33 GMT
Well now you’re just making Ragnor lists. My theory is Ragnor is the curse of trolls, because he’s both our most boring and most versatile warlock. Other warlocks are much better into certain situations, but Ragnor is good into the widest variety of situations, so any time you start thinking of counterfactuals, like “what if they have grievous wounds?!” You end up back at Ragnor. You caught me, I'm just trying to hijack the thread with my love of Ragnor Weirdly enough I don't find him to be boring but I do understand how one could feel that way about him. But seriously I was really just trying to take the original idea of the list and bring it into MKIII. I just don't think Doomy3 brings warders anything and the list is sacrificing too much to bring them. I don't necessarily think you have to maximize your theme points but I think Ragnor supports both aspects of the old list more than Doomy3 does so while bringing some similar tools
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Post by grabsnikk on Feb 9, 2018 19:04:29 GMT
You can easily go for the "i take only 40 points of infantry"-approach in BoH. But why not do it with a caster who supports both beasts and infantry? imo, Doomshaper 3 is probably the least "combined arms" warlock we have Doomy2 is the least Combined arms caster. He has a feat and spell list that only effect his battlegroup.
Doomy3 at least has that mini-feat that buffs infantry.
Other than that though Trollock is right. If you want combined arms can I suggest Doomy1 who at least brings Fortune and has a feat that affects his whole list
or Ragnor who has a similar feat to Doomy3 but it affects infantry as well.
While Doomy1 is a lot better than Doomy2/3 at supporting a combined arms list, his feat doesn't affect his army at all, it affects enemy models.
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Post by grabsnikk on Feb 9, 2018 19:11:56 GMT
I brought up Ragnor as an alternative to what you've presented here because he's bringing something very similar to what doomy3 provides albeit a little different. Doomy3 only brings a mini-feat for his infantry as his feat only effects his battle group while Ragnor supports BOTH your beasts and infantry so if you want to bring a combined list with beasts and infantry he does it well. You characterized Ragnor as a PoD caster because thats what most people have presented him as but I'll tell you from experience he does good things with our heavy infantry (think 3 warders taking 2 focus loaded heavies to clear). For a list like this I just think ragnor is going to be the better fit, he's going to provide more support for the entire army, has upkeep removal, and is far more survivable. Yes you lose some awesome spells from doomy3's card but its not like Ragnor has a bad spell list. something like this seems to do what you're looking for far better. It provides the same tools that the Doomy3 list presented but synergizes better. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0afL0r9DiR0hjq6Ghm6R0l0mc8cBTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes (Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Gremlin Swarm [3] Troll Whelps [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Sons of Bragg [11] Trollkin Warders (max) [17] I've been dojoing Ragnor with infantry a bit in this thread lormahordes.freeforums.net/post/79161/threadAnd as two side notes. I don't see the axer as a rush stick but I'm willing to pay 10 for him because of rush if I already have rush available he seems expensive to me. Also I applaud thinking outside of the internet hive-mind I just dont' think the old Doomy3 list will work very well. I have to say I like the idea of Ragnor but it just seems like all he offers infantry is his feat for a turn, as he has no spells that can affect multiple models, they are all single target spells which really limits his options. Troll units generally need some buffs to work well so unless you go full infantry spam with him, POD just seems a lot better. Also if you go infantry spam, why are you not playing Madrak1/2 who is vastly superior to Ragnor in that regard.
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Post by robbleyourworld on Feb 9, 2018 19:36:06 GMT
I brought up Ragnor as an alternative to what you've presented here because he's bringing something very similar to what doomy3 provides albeit a little different. Doomy3 only brings a mini-feat for his infantry as his feat only effects his battle group while Ragnor supports BOTH your beasts and infantry so if you want to bring a combined list with beasts and infantry he does it well. You characterized Ragnor as a PoD caster because thats what most people have presented him as but I'll tell you from experience he does good things with our heavy infantry (think 3 warders taking 2 focus loaded heavies to clear). For a list like this I just think ragnor is going to be the better fit, he's going to provide more support for the entire army, has upkeep removal, and is far more survivable. Yes you lose some awesome spells from doomy3's card but its not like Ragnor has a bad spell list. something like this seems to do what you're looking for far better. It provides the same tools that the Doomy3 list presented but synergizes better. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0afL0r9DiR0hjq6Ghm6R0l0mc8cBTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes (Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Gremlin Swarm [3] Troll Whelps [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Sons of Bragg [11] Trollkin Warders (max) [17] I've been dojoing Ragnor with infantry a bit in this thread lormahordes.freeforums.net/post/79161/threadAnd as two side notes. I don't see the axer as a rush stick but I'm willing to pay 10 for him because of rush if I already have rush available he seems expensive to me. Also I applaud thinking outside of the internet hive-mind I just dont' think the old Doomy3 list will work very well. I have to say I like the idea of Ragnor but it just seems like all he offers infantry is his feat for a turn, as he has no spells that can affect multiple models, they are all single target spells which really limits his options. Troll units generally need some buffs to work well so unless you go full infantry spam with him, POD just seems a lot better. Also if you go infantry spam, why are you not playing Madrak1/2 who is vastly superior to Ragnor in that regard. I'm not disagreeing that we have other options to run infantry with casters who on the surface run infantry "better" I'm just presenting an option that does something similar to the original list. Yes you're correct that Ragnor doesn't provide a unit wide infantry buff but I would disagree that his spell list doesn't support a small set of elite infantry, pulverizer on a SoB or a battle bear can be pretty terrifying, earths sanctuary can help keep important pieces alive, and hex blast is always good. Also his feat alone is good enough on high arm multi wound infantry to consider their inclusion. While I could debate further the statement of Madrak1/2 being "vastly" superior to ragnor at infantry spam that's a discussion for another place. #TeamRagnor
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