twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179 
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Post by twity on Feb 5, 2018 19:08:52 GMT
So.... I am not a huge fan of taking tournament results as an indicator of faction balance but.....
In the 2018 big solo tournaments listed on discount games the only faction that has not placed in the top 3 is Grymkin. Additionally, it looks like the amount of top 3 placements correlates pretty well to faction popularity (based on who enters the tournaments in the first place, stolen from conflict chamber). Just eyeballing the data it looks like the main outlier is Mercs, who are winning at a higher percentage than the number of people who enter them into tournaments.
I would take this with a hefty grain of salt, but it looks too me like a solid indicator of faction balance.
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Post by tiberius on Feb 5, 2018 19:31:45 GMT
I do not disagree with you, the game is closer balanced now than it has ever been, its just now that when someone gets a CID with all the shiney new toys, some bumps up and down, they feel like they are getting something more than everyone else...or everyone else seems to feel left out. But yes, overall, the game is as balanced as it ever has been, probably more so.
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Post by snarlyyow on Feb 5, 2018 19:33:51 GMT
So.... I am not a huge fan of taking tournament results as an indicator of faction balance but..... In the 2018 big solo tournaments listed on discount games the only faction that has not placed in the top 3 is Grymkin. Additionally, it looks like the amount of top 3 placements correlates pretty well to faction popularity (based on who enters the tournaments in the first place, stolen from conflict chamber). Just eyeballing the data it looks like the main outlier is Mercs, who are winning at a higher percentage than the number of people who enter them into tournaments. I would take this with a hefty grain of salt, but it looks too me like a solid indicator of faction balance. I think there's no question that the factions are relatively balanced. There is still a tier. Mercenaries have a lot of good themes and a lot of tools. They have inexpensive jacks, premier jacks, good and bad troopers that either allow them to build "premier" armies or armies of cheap fodder. They can sort of do it all and, in MKiii, are finally a real faction. I think a lot of Grymkin players, after having played their new shinies for a bit, are back to whatever they were playing before. Grymkin is fine, they're very strong, but being a small faction I think some interest has waned. I think 10 factions have placed in non-tournaments, which seems really good. Circle only placed in the Champions format, which seems pretty bad news bears for them so I continue to think Circle players have a real greivance with their faction. |
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 5, 2018 20:35:57 GMT
A disclaimer should be noted that DiscountGames doesn't always promptly update with the European tournament results...
Otherwise we'd be asking: who's this Pat Dunford? with no small incredulity.
That said, even with Europe based events and Grymkin placing here, it doesn't really have an impact on the point being made... in fact, I'm inclined to think it balances things further...
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Feb 5, 2018 20:59:47 GMT
I think when it comes to the Mercs, there is one caster that skews these results. Ossrum is the most popular and most competitive caster we have and it's very unusual to not see him as one of the pairings. There isn't much he can't play against. From there it really depends on the player with Damiano and Magnus2 usually being the second list. As the meta evolves some more and we get used to Gastone2 and the new Ashlynn, things will broaden out more though. Also, it seems when Mercs are winning, they are being piloted by the top players out there while some of the other factions are so straight forward that almost anyone can win with them. I still think that Mercs is one of the harder factions to play.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Feb 5, 2018 21:13:17 GMT
A disclaimer should be noted that DiscountGames doesn't always promptly update with the European tournament results... Otherwise we'd be asking: who's this Pat Dunford? with no small incredulity. That said, even with Europe based events and Grymkin placing here, it doesn't really have an impact on the point being made... in fact, I'm inclined to think it balances things further... Pat is OP! PP need to nerf him if they want any hope at a balanced game! |
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 5, 2018 21:16:15 GMT
Pat is OP! PP need to nerf him if they want any hope at a balanced game! No chance... he's balanced by the re-released Tom Guan! |
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twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
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Post by twity on Feb 5, 2018 22:59:20 GMT
It all makes me hopeful regarding balance in the game.
I can get mired in the Legion forums sometimes, which can be a little mopey at times. Everyone has their own opinion on how is overpowered, and what needs balancing, but I am inclined to think that every faction has something they can run successfully at any level of play. There may be some things that need a little tune up in a faction, but that seems to be offset by the models that are balanced.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Feb 6, 2018 3:57:54 GMT
It all makes me hopeful regarding balance in the game. I can get mired in the Legion forums sometimes, which can be a little mopey at times. Everyone has their own opinion on how is overpowered, and what needs balancing, but I am inclined to think that every faction has something they can run successfully at any level of play. There may be some things that need a little tune up in a faction, but that seems to be offset by the models that are balanced. Have you seen JVM's Ravens of War lists? Any inspiration there? |
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Feb 6, 2018 4:05:08 GMT
I think when it comes to the Mercs, there is one caster that skews these results. Ossrum is the most popular and most competitive caster we have and it's very unusual to not see him as one of the pairings. There isn't much he can't play against. From there it really depends on the player with Damiano and Magnus2 usually being the second list. As the meta evolves some more and we get used to Gastone2 and the new Ashlynn, things will broaden out more though. Also, it seems when Mercs are winning, they are being piloted by the top players out there while some of the other factions are so straight forward that almost anyone can win with them. I still think that Mercs is one of the harder factions to play. Your roster is pretty ridiculous, yeah. I am almost surprised that you're not dominating the Champions format, but I also think it's interesting that Circle does better there than in Masters. |
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twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
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Post by twity on Feb 6, 2018 12:30:06 GMT
It all makes me hopeful regarding balance in the game. I can get mired in the Legion forums sometimes, which can be a little mopey at times. Everyone has their own opinion on how is overpowered, and what needs balancing, but I am inclined to think that every faction has something they can run successfully at any level of play. There may be some things that need a little tune up in a faction, but that seems to be offset by the models that are balanced. Have you seen JVM's Ravens of War lists? Any inspiration there? I did look at them, and while I don't think I would run either one of them I do like the general idea of running something novel. There is a lot of power gained in playing something your opponent has not seen and does not immediately know your game plan. They also benefit from the fact that people don't necessarily prepare for unique lists, and so while your power curve might be slightly blunted your opponents is as well. It loses some of that benefit if copied, so instead I just try to play with new models and casters in odd combinations to see what I can pull off. |
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Post by macdaddy on Feb 6, 2018 12:57:11 GMT
Meh, still a lot of cryx and cygnar considering how limited the data is. Way more than I am comfortable with anyway. But I am also not looking at the entire data, just the placing.
The Circle data is....confusing. I am not fully convinced that circle is in a bad place, we still have potent casters like Krueger 2 and Una 2. I could see issues with other casters, but its really surprising that we are preforming so poorly this early on.
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Post by streetpizza on Feb 6, 2018 13:54:13 GMT
Meh, still a lot of cryx and cygnar considering how limited the data is. Way more than I am comfortable with anyway. But I am also not looking at the entire data, just the placing. The Circle data is....confusing. I am not fully convinced that circle is in a bad place, we still have potent casters like Krueger 2 and Una 2. I could see issues with other casters, but its really surprising that we are preforming so poorly this early on. Patience brother and harken to the tharn CID and then pray long and hard to our lord and savior Pagani and hopeth that his blessings doth rain upon thine faction like mana from PP headquaters. In his name we post. Pagani be praised. |
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Post by macdaddy on Feb 6, 2018 13:58:18 GMT
Patience brother and harken to the tharn CID and then pray long and hard to our lord and savior Pagani and hopeth that his blessings doth rain upon thine faction like mana from PP headquaters. In his name we post. Pagani be praised. HEAR HEAR!! Praise be to all knowing Pagani Senpai! |
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Post by jisidro on Feb 6, 2018 14:03:50 GMT
It's very clear that Circle is not in a bad place... which isn't to say a lot of stuff doesn't need a buff to make it to the table but that is the case with most factions. Circle has shown good results with a narrow selection of warlocks, everything works as long as it has Una2 and a few griffons.
I feel balance is good with the usual suspects a bit ahead... Ppl seem to sleep better with Cryx as the usual bogeyman. Cygnar gives everyone the fits but results don't back it up...
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