kuarnix
Junior Strategist
Posts: 145 
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Post by kuarnix on Apr 3, 2017 23:32:15 GMT
In terms of a Khador vs. Cryx comparison, the simplest way I can put it is that Khador relishes a fair fight, while Cryx will prefer to (metaphorically) come at you sideways and do everything they can to keep the fight from being anything resembling fair. In practice this tends to mean that it's much easier to screw up with a Cryx army. Right now the lack of durability can be a problem, as games can be running at the other player for a couple turns before you get to do much, while you scoop models off the table to boom-sticks.
The army does get to bend or break rules in several interesting ways:
-cheap-ish and fast arc nodes so you can sling debuffs or strong offensive spells (some casters may be worried about being Hellfired to death)
-ample access to dark shroud (proximity based arm debuff)
-ghostly is common rule and can be handed out by some casters
-many casters have a defense or arm debuff but rarely both; some arm debuffs allow you to move through models (unfair fighting)
-easy access to grievous wounds (more unfairness)
-incorporeal models (more rule breaking)
-many models can power up on souls (not easy but their offensive output will go up.
-recursion (not as good as it used to be, debatable if worthwhile over spending points on more combat models instead, but still 'unfair')
Downsides:
-"Bullets?! My only weakness! *dies*"
-seriously, many of the 'casters are on medium bases in a small based army, and like to spend their focus. They are usually tough and personally dangerous, but tend to be bullet magnets. It can be difficult to protect them.
-middling threat range on most units. Satixys are fast, 'jacks are fast (but not faster than other factions can push theirs to), everything else is average to slow. Guns are few and far between, and durability is typically low, so you have to cross ground, you can't stand off.
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Nyxu
Overseer 
NaCl Elemental
Posts: 119
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Post by Nyxu on Apr 4, 2017 1:47:37 GMT
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 4, 2017 2:09:07 GMT
As a Khador Player, Im my mind Khador is defined by being good at everything, but not a master at anything.
It has no big weaknesses, and actually is GOOD at almost anything it wants depending on caster. But it doesn't really have Killer Apps or things it does much better or focused wise.
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Post by sircas on Apr 4, 2017 6:50:04 GMT
Its often better to think of what a faction lacks rather than their strengths. In game play or list building you wont be thinking about the strengths of your army that much, your tactical ability and thought is going to be how to overcome the armies inherent weakness.
For example Khador: has seriously low movement. Engaging your enemy is going to require strategy and thought. You'll constantly have to think about trying not to lose on scenario or assassination and how you can nullify your opponents scenario winning abilities. A lot of your list building will be trying to overcome that speed deficit and adding models that can apply pressure in scenarios.
You'll spend little time worrying about how to kill things or keep models alive as your army has massive damage output and very tough models. If you can get stuff to your opponent you'll general wreck them.
Cryx: Cryx models are not tough, they die or lose function when hit by a wet towel. You'll constantly have to think about where you can put your models to deny your opponent the ability to attack them. Your tactical game is generally answering the question 'how do I keep my models on the table?'. Your list building is generally around a suite of defensive measures.
Cryx has movement to spare, many cheap and annoying models and many abilities to cripple opponents abilities. Scenario pressure is easy to generate. You'll rarely have to ask yourself the question about whether you can assassinate the caster or hold scenario - unless too many of your models are dead.
The other thing to ask yourself is whether you like shooting lists. Cryx has none/very few where khador has a number of options.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Apr 4, 2017 8:29:09 GMT
I find it hilarious that people consider Khador a faction with "seriously low movement". Like really the low movement faction is the one with:
1) Field Marshal Apperation
2) Field Marshal Reposition 3 + Mobility
3) Quicken
4) Infernal Machine, Dash, & a Feat that grants Side Step + Sprint
5) Assail
6) 3 Casters with Feats that increase models speed or movement (Vlad1, Strakov1, Kozlov)
7) Overun
8) 4 Different Boundless Charge casters
9) Watcher
10) Battle-Charged + Road to War
11) Superiority
12) Energizer
13) Escort
The only Warcasters in Khador that don't have movement buffs or tricks are Butcher1 & Zerkova2. The other 18 casters come with some kind of movement fixer in the form of a spell, battle plan, or feat. Khador only has seriously low movement if the Khador player isn't reading his cards.
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Post by sircas on Apr 4, 2017 8:53:50 GMT
Yes they have many ways to mitigate that low movement. But thats the thing, you have to know what those options are, what they affect, how many things they can affect and plan accordingly. If you dont then you often have jacks swinging in the wind. Cryx doesnt have anywhere near that kind of problem.
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Post by tiberius on Apr 4, 2017 11:10:04 GMT
I think you had it pretty well Benjin, thinking that Khador has the more straight forward faction, buff, send in, axe to face, while Cryx is the more sneaky, non-linear threat. Things like overrun, hyper aggressive, jump, and other movement shenanigans allowing things to get to where they should not be able to get to. It takes more planning and skill in the cryx army to pull off that sort of thing, where Khador's base package is more the beginner setting. Now that being said, there are a lot of complexity to some of Khador's forces and can build the non-linear, ultra fast tricky force. Just like Cryx can build a deceptively tough and hard hitting force. There is enough variety in either faction to support whatever your play style is. Which do you think will hold your interest longer and which do you like the aesthetic of more? I can build a terminus list or an iron lich asphyxious list that could rival the straight forward face pounding of a butcher list. Or I could build a strakohv or old witch list that could rival the trickiness of a witch coven list. Vlad 3 is all about movement shenanigans, and guys like asphyxious 3 gives his entire battle group unyielding, impressive on a colossal or a character heavy and rivals khador heavy armor. So the play style, while there are themes for the faction, there are outside themes that can fit almost any playstyle. So it comes down to what do you want to play?
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kuarnix
Junior Strategist
Posts: 145
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Post by kuarnix on Apr 4, 2017 17:33:33 GMT
I find it hilarious that people consider Khador a faction with "seriously low movement". Oh I know right? Started the game with Khador over ten years ago, the only thing that is 'slow' are the 'jacks (and Men-o-War I suppose), and movement fixers are pretty abundant. But when you get to infantry that's a different story - most other nasty, hard hitting infantry is SPD 5....in Khador it's SPD 6 with 2" melee. I feel like Khador being the 'slow' army is something that somebody somewhere said once and it just stuck around. Honestly Cryx feels like a slower faction half the time, with the exception of Bonejacks and ability to re-position Helljacks. Before I played Cryx, I used to chat with my regular opponent who was a Cryx player about how jealous I was of speed 6. He'd tell me that I have ARM 20 all the time, and SPD 6 whenever I need it because of things like Boundless Charge, Superiority, etc. The warjacks are only slow if you can disconnect them from their controller (in the same way that Cryx 'jacks have pillows for fists without input from a controller). |
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Post by Reason of voice on Apr 5, 2017 7:36:19 GMT
I can build a terminus list or an iron lich asphyxious list that could rival the straight forward face pounding of a butcher list. I'd be interested to see these lists. Mostly the Iron Lich version |
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Post by tiberius on Apr 5, 2017 10:46:26 GMT
Here is a simple list I ran with a lot of success against my normal opponents. Obviously, butcher is going to deal more damage, the comment was mostly about straight forwardness. Apply debuff, smash it.
Iron Lich Asphyxious +28
- Withershadow combine -9
- Cankerworm - 9
- Ripjaw - 7
- Ripjaw - 7
- Deathjack - 23
Bane Lord Tartarus -8
Ogrun Bokur -5
Bane Warriors + UA - 23
Bile Thralls + CA - 12
Biles are the advance deploying distraction to make your opponent deal with them before the rest of your army gets into position because banes are not exactly fast. But there are a lot of them and with tough, you should get across the field against anything but a dedicated infantry removal list, or the deathjack gets there and eats a heavy. A lot of armor cracking in the list, Tartarus can help the warriors hit more accurately. Bokur is just body guard to asphyxious who can do a lot of heavy lifting on his own between soloing a heavy, applying debuffs or dropping breaths of corruption on infantry units. Withershadow provide rerolls and focus efficiency. And who doesn't love armor piercing arc nodes?
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