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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 19, 2018 13:54:22 GMT
Great write ups! That Nemo 3 player must have been super sad! Gotta read that feat carefully, otherwise you will get boned hard! Is it normal for a tournament-level player to not know what their opponent's feat is? (I've never played in a tournament - just wondering how often this kind of thing happens).
I don't think it is normal to have no idea what someone's feat is when playing, as you can always ask if you don't know (and I would imagine most people would ask as it's pretty important info).
I would guess in this case it was a case of only partially understanding Borka 2s feat, he most likely knew about the Stealth part, but maybe assumed it only applied to 'friendly models', not just 'models'. Borka 2s feat is pretty unique in that regard, but the oldest trick in the book with him is feating on models blocking LOS to a caster and then shooting through them. Or he could have just forgotten in the heat of the moment, I have derped many times at tournaments.
As always the onus is on you to know what your opponents stuff does, they are not obliged to warn you, and they say assumption is the mother of all *expletive* ups!
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 19, 2018 14:00:06 GMT
hey timtheenchanter how do you feel about Lynus and Edrea into non cygnar match ups? Do you think they fit into other factions well?
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Post by deviantcad on Jan 19, 2018 15:32:08 GMT
[/quote] I believe you misunderstand allinontroll as well. He suggests the change IF his other list handles Swan. Ahh, I understand now. If Tim wasn't building a Bearka list to deal with Cygnar would he take out the tech he put in to deal with Cygnar. So kinda like what would his Bearka list be if it was a one list format. I guess that boils down to rage vs primal and how much use L & E are in an all comers list. That is a pretty good question. Could give you insight into other pairings with Bearka.
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Post by trollbro on Jan 19, 2018 17:14:35 GMT
Is it normal for a tournament-level player to not know what their opponent's feat is? (I've never played in a tournament - just wondering how often this kind of thing happens).
I don't think it is normal to have no idea what someone's feat is when playing, as you can always ask if you don't know (and I would imagine most people would ask as it's pretty important info).
I would guess in this case it was a case of only partially understanding Borka 2s feat, he most likely knew about the Stealth part, but maybe assumed it only applied to 'friendly models', not just 'models'. Borka 2s feat is pretty unique in that regard, but the oldest trick in the book with him is feating on models blocking LOS to a caster and then shooting through them. Or he could have just forgotten in the heat of the moment, I have derped many times at tournaments.
As always the onus is on you to know what your opponents stuff does, they are not obliged to warn you, and they say assumption is the mother of all *expletive* ups!
Ah ok. That makes sense.
And just to be clear: I wasn't trying to disparage the skill of the Cygnar player - I genuinely wanted to know if these things happen at a tournament given the game's complexity.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 19, 2018 20:34:08 GMT
Great write ups! That Nemo 3 player must have been super sad! Gotta read that feat carefully, otherwise you will get boned hard! Is it normal for a tournament-level player to not know what their opponent's feat is? (I've never played in a tournament - just wondering how often this kind of thing happens).
In my experience it happens way more often than you think. I am one of those nerds who have an easy time learning stats and rules by heart, and in most tournament games i know my opponents rules better than they do. Against WTC level players that is not the case, but they might still not know MY stuff as well as they could. Forgetting that Borkas feat makes enemy models stealth is something i expect a majority of even high skilled players could easily forget. It is SOOO corner case, and Borka 2 has been a very impopular caster since he released.
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Post by minmaximus on Jan 19, 2018 22:51:31 GMT
I think its also worth noting with Borka2's feat its really easy to accidentally add words to it as an opponent. "Everything in his CTRL area gains Stealth" is a very simple phrase that accurately explains what it does, but its really easy to assume it as "Everything friendly".
Speaking from tournament experience in card games: people forget/overlook things at Nationals/Worlds level events all the time. Not enough for you to plan around it but enough that you're going to benefit from other peoples oversight on occasion.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Jan 20, 2018 15:11:09 GMT
Quick note - this round we lost 2-3 and the deciding table involved a judge call to resolve the game. These things happen, the judging at the event was professional, and all members of the Canadian team stand by the call that was made. We harbor no ill feelings toward "Top of Two" team members. The ATC was excellent and we were happy to be invited. Hopefully we'll be able to come back next year and have half as many games against people even half as nice. Details? Or is it too soon? I find I learn and retain more in dispute resolution, whether in gaming or anything in life.
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Post by timtheenchanter on Jan 21, 2018 16:19:33 GMT
Great write ups! That Nemo 3 player must have been super sad! Gotta read that feat carefully, otherwise you will get boned hard! Is it normal for a tournament-level player to not know what their opponent's feat is? (I've never played in a tournament - just wondering how often this kind of thing happens).
At all levels of play people make mistakes. I’ve played in the Warmachine Weekend invitational, at the WTC, and at the top tables of large Masters events—universally people make mistakes. This is is a rule-heavy game. People forget stuff. The difference between a so-called pro players and everyone else is threefold: making these mistakes less, adapting to them well, and taking ownership of them and learning a lesson from the mistake.
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Post by timtheenchanter on Jan 21, 2018 16:28:24 GMT
hey timtheenchanter how do you feel about Lynus and Edrea into non cygnar match ups? Do you think they fit into other factions well? I like them against any cloud walls, or in matchups where having true sight is key (Grymkin). They often score or contest key scenario pieces too.
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Post by timtheenchanter on Jan 21, 2018 16:32:38 GMT
Quick note - this round we lost 2-3 and the deciding table involved a judge call to resolve the game. These things happen, the judging at the event was professional, and all members of the Canadian team stand by the call that was made. We harbor no ill feelings toward "Top of Two" team members. The ATC was excellent and we were happy to be invited. Hopefully we'll be able to come back next year and have half as many games against people even half as nice. Details? Or is it too soon? I find I learn and retain more in dispute resolution, whether in gaming or anything in life. There was minor disagreement about the game state. We accepted the ruling. At this point going over it feels too much like internet drama for my tastes.
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Post by Ajax on Jan 23, 2018 19:14:45 GMT
Hey Tim, assuming you're bringing this kind of list to a local Steamroller, is this a pairing you would keep? What are the "bad" matchups for this pairing?
I'm currently working on a way to make these two casters my pairing as well, but I feel like both lists fall short to any really shooty lists. I definitely need more reps, but from what i've already seen, real shooty lists have no issue with DEF, concealment, or Stealth.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 24, 2018 9:39:32 GMT
Hey Tim, assuming you're bringing this kind of list to a local Steamroller, is this a pairing you would keep? What are the "bad" matchups for this pairing? I'm currently working on a way to make these two casters my pairing as well, but I feel like both lists fall short to any really shooty lists. I definitely need more reps, but from what i've already seen, real shooty lists have no issue with DEF, concealment, or Stealth. What shooty lists completely ignore stealth AND can handle double EBDTs? Legion ignores stealth with shooting, but do basically nothing to the EBDTs. Other lists can usually ignore stealth with a coupe of models at best, but that means you get to deliver your army mostly intact. Mage Sight can remove stealth from one or two things, and possibly shoot them down, but is that enough? Sloan seems to be the sole exception, since she ignores stealth with her entire list basically, but id not be afraid of going to a SR event and planning on dodging Sloan...
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Post by timtheenchanter on Feb 6, 2018 19:50:14 GMT
Hey Tim, assuming you're bringing this kind of list to a local Steamroller, is this a pairing you would keep? What are the "bad" matchups for this pairing? I'm currently working on a way to make these two casters my pairing as well, but I feel like both lists fall short to any really shooty lists. I definitely need more reps, but from what i've already seen, real shooty lists have no issue with DEF, concealment, or Stealth. What shooty lists completely ignore stealth AND can handle double EBDTs? Legion ignores stealth with shooting, but do basically nothing to the EBDTs. Other lists can usually ignore stealth with a coupe of models at best, but that means you get to deliver your army mostly intact. Mage Sight can remove stealth from one or two things, and possibly shoot them down, but is that enough? Sloan seems to be the sole exception, since she ignores stealth with her entire list basically, but id not be afraid of going to a SR event and planning on dodging Sloan... Yup, Sloan, basically.
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Post by allinontrolls on Feb 6, 2018 20:00:27 GMT
Its a bit of topic but tim how do you feel about kolgrima currently. I just watched ur YouTube game but not sure how to build kolgrima correctly.
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Post by timtheenchanter on Feb 7, 2018 20:05:07 GMT
Its a bit of topic but tim how do you feel about kolgrima currently. I just watched ur YouTube game but not sure how to build kolgrima correctly. She's really strong, but complex to play. I haven't shown off my "real" list with her yet -- it's filled with really powerful tech.
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