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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 17, 2018 16:14:24 GMT
Does Thunderhead open up a Match-up for your Nemo3 list that Dynamo does not? Do you lose the ability to play into a match-up by not having Dynamo? Not explicitly, I just prefer Thunderhead in general, and I am willing to sacrifice ranged output to have a piece that is more durable (and harder to cripple its weapons), has greater utility (pulse, throws, crit disrupt, sustained attack) and hits harder in melee.
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Post by mydnight on Jan 17, 2018 20:34:03 GMT
Unfortunately the thunderhead doesn't even necessarily hit harder in melee. The higher the armor, the better Dynamo is relatively.
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313 
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Post by gmonkey on Jan 17, 2018 21:51:09 GMT
The higher the armor, the better Dynamo is relatively. Huh? I'd understand this if you were talking about a hunter. Please explain. |
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Post by mydnight on Jan 17, 2018 23:11:28 GMT
The better dynamo is relative to thunderhead.
Imagine thunderhead only had 4 attacks max. Dynamo too. If all attacks hit, dynamo has a 6 point damage advantage.
Now we count the additional attack that thunderhead has. At pwr 17 with average rolling, he will do an effective pwr 24. So against something with arm 18 this is on average equal to the output of dynamo (Against 1 target). Against anything with higher arm, dynamo wins, and against anything with less, thunderhead wins.
Of course this assumes all attacks hit, and the thunderhead has an advantage there, as missing is very costly to dynamo.
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Post by sludgeogre on Jan 17, 2018 23:43:49 GMT
Does Thunderhead open up a Match-up for your Nemo3 list that Dynamo does not? Do you lose the ability to play into a match-up by not having Dynamo? Not explicitly, I just prefer Thunderhead in general, and I am willing to sacrifice ranged output to have a piece that is more durable (and harder to cripple its weapons), has greater utility (pulse, throws, crit disrupt, sustained attack) and hits harder in melee.
Disruption on Thunderhead is redundant as you have 4 shots from the Striders every turn that disrupt, Arlan's spray, and other potential avenues like Stormcallers in SD. The fists being slightly higher in Pow is not a big factor. It's not a lot of extra damage potential, and certainly not worth losing the bond over. I do wish you luck in your endeavor! Hopefully it's fun and works for you! |
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Post by darkangeldentist on Jan 18, 2018 1:21:02 GMT
I rather like Thunderhead in this edition and find if you can bring yourself to put him on the table he is good. There are plenty of occasions where I have been really grateful for his better than average profile. (ARM 19 and 32 boxes means it usually takes significantly more firepower to bring him down) and the gun can't be crippled which means that opponents only shut down the ranged assassination threat from him by taking out his cortex.
Nemo3 is fun and it's easy to get carried away thinking about the potential damage that it's possible to achieve on his feat turn but the reality is rarely as gratifying. Shield guards and the occasional dice betrayal can completely ruin Dynamo's day and he's fragile enough that even with a damage buff there are a lot of things that will one-round him. Thunderhead isn't as brutal at range but at least his 3 shots can directed however you like so a single shield guard can't stop your ranged pummelling. Pulse and sustained attack do make his gun very reliable even if the potential is lower. Sustained attack in melee also makes the Thunderhead a reliable threat up close and not having to roll to hit with follow up attacks really helps when fighting against higher DEF targets.
If you focus purely on comparing these two jacks then it'll come down to whether you value offensive potential or defensive resilience more. However there should be no guilt for putting either on the table and if you want to play Thunderhead then do so. I have almost always enjoyed putting him on the table and generally gotten good work out of him.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 18, 2018 9:31:36 GMT
The better dynamo is relative to thunderhead. Imagine thunderhead only had 4 attacks max. Dynamo too. If all attacks hit, dynamo has a 6 point damage advantage. Now we count the additional attack that thunderhead has. At pwr 17 with average rolling, he will do an effective pwr 24. So against something with arm 18 this is on average equal to the output of dynamo (Against 1 target). Against anything with higher arm, dynamo wins, and against anything with less, thunderhead wins. Of course this assumes all attacks hit, and the thunderhead has an advantage there, as missing is very costly to dynamo. Thanks for the breakdown.
I think you hit the nail on the head with missing for Dynamo being very costly, that is a major reason why I don't like him that much. With both ranged and melee, if he misses one attack his damage output can just drop through the floor. T-Head is more consistent due to sustained attack, and if my dice do flake on me, I prefer the impact to be slightly limited
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Post by sludgeogre on Jan 18, 2018 15:31:06 GMT
The better dynamo is relative to thunderhead. Imagine thunderhead only had 4 attacks max. Dynamo too. If all attacks hit, dynamo has a 6 point damage advantage. Now we count the additional attack that thunderhead has. At pwr 17 with average rolling, he will do an effective pwr 24. So against something with arm 18 this is on average equal to the output of dynamo (Against 1 target). Against anything with higher arm, dynamo wins, and against anything with less, thunderhead wins. Of course this assumes all attacks hit, and the thunderhead has an advantage there, as missing is very costly to dynamo. Thanks for the breakdown.
I think you hit the nail on the head with missing for Dynamo being very costly, that is a major reason why I don't like him that much. With both ranged and melee, if he misses one attack his damage output can just drop through the floor. T-Head is more consistent due to sustained attack, and if my dice do flake on me, I prefer the impact to be slightly limited
As a person who tends to have epic dice fails all at the worst times, I can totally get behind that. If T-Head had just a little more threat range I'd totally be there with you. |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 18, 2018 15:37:23 GMT
Thanks for the breakdown.
I think you hit the nail on the head with missing for Dynamo being very costly, that is a major reason why I don't like him that much. With both ranged and melee, if he misses one attack his damage output can just drop through the floor. T-Head is more consistent due to sustained attack, and if my dice do flake on me, I prefer the impact to be slightly limited
As a person who tends to have epic dice fails all at the worst times, I can totally get behind that. If T-Head had just a little more threat range I'd totally be there with you. to be fair to him, his ranged threat is the same as Dynamo (15") and his melee threat is only 1" less, I know the pulse is only 11", but I tend you play him conservatively and force the enemy to close with me, so they can't help but put something in pulse or melee range |
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Jan 21, 2018 12:47:53 GMT
I think my main reservation about Dynamo is the amount of Shield Guards in the game now, a savvy opponent will just position them correctly to make sure Dynamo will not get to shoot a valuable target. Also I just love Thunderheads pulse, 6" in a 180 arc can clear so much stuff I agree with snarlyow, but I see your point. However, I think Cyngar has the tools for that. Shield Guards are generally multi-wound infantry, or a durable Heavy. The former can easily be overcome by volume fire, and Dynamo can smoke a Sentry or Blindwalker-like model at range. That's nothing to scoff at, taking a heavy off the table for free is always good. |
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Post by onijet01 on Jan 26, 2018 16:51:55 GMT
Not explicitly, I just prefer Thunderhead in general, and I am willing to sacrifice ranged output to have a piece that is more durable (and harder to cripple its weapons), has greater utility (pulse, throws, crit disrupt, sustained attack) and hits harder in melee.
Disruption on Thunderhead is redundant as you have 4 shots from the Striders every turn that disrupt, Arlan's spray, and other potential avenues like Stormcallers in SD. The fists being slightly higher in Pow is not a big factor. It's not a lot of extra damage potential, and certainly not worth losing the bond over. I do wish you luck in your endeavor! Hopefully it's fun and works for you! Actually have to call you out. The storm strider has critical distruption so each shot has at best about a 26% chance (boosted) to disrupt a hit targer. |
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Post by onijet01 on Jan 27, 2018 2:06:58 GMT
Actually have to call you out. The storm strider has critical distruption so each shot has at best about a 26% chance (boosted) to disrupt a hit targer. On Battle College it says that, but on the card it's just a weapon quality that it gets. It's not a critical effect. Look at the card in war room. I updated the page on Battle College as well, since anyone can. Again its the critical disruption effect as posted in and i quote warroom2, battlecolledge, and the official privateer press card pdf downloads. The stars on a symbol are critical not normal. To compare the symbol on stormstrider to nemo 1 fulgar is the any hit disruption. Also thunderheads fists arw also critical disruption icon |
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Post by mydnight on Jan 27, 2018 2:13:45 GMT
Actually have to call you out. The storm strider has critical distruption so each shot has at best about a 26% chance (boosted) to disrupt a hit targer. On Battle College it says that, but on the card it's just a weapon quality that it gets. It's not a critical effect. Look at the card in war room. I updated the page on Battle College as well, since anyone can. Lol dude trust me everyone would be up in arms if the strider has direct disruption. It's critical. There's adifference in the symbols -- if it has stars in it it means critical. |
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Post by sludgeogre on Jan 27, 2018 6:27:08 GMT
Sorry, restored everything. Never even noticed the damn star over the symbol. I have a small meta and mostly play into hordes so it rarely ever even comes up for me.
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Post by onijet01 on Jan 28, 2018 2:24:03 GMT
Sorry, restored everything. Never even noticed the damn star over the symbol. I have a small meta and mostly play into hordes so it rarely ever even comes up for me. Thats okay i just did not want any confusions was all. Everyone makes mistakes right? |
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