Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK

benjamini
Junior Strategist

Posts: 245

Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK Jan 10, 2018 14:28:07 GMT

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Post by benjamini on Jan 10, 2018 14:28:07 GMT

Hi Guys,

Hi Again Komrades!

I recently attended a localish Steamroller with OW 2 WGK paired with Sorscha 1 in Wolves of Winter. The day proceeded well, and despite a rough first game, I managed to claim second! Thinking about it, I really enjoyed the Witch list, but I'm less satisfied with the Sorscha 1 list. There is another one right in town at the end of the month, and I figured I want to bring OW 2 again but am not sure what I would want to pair with it. I'd appreciate any you have ideas Khador Kommunity! I've posted the witch list below.

I am not really interested in Legion of Steel, especially because I only have one unit of Pikemen and one unit of Uhlans and don't really want to build more in that direction for now, but I'm pretty open to most ideas!

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Winter Guard Kommand

(Old Witch 2) Zevanna Agha, The Fate Keeper [+27]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Marauder [10]
- Marauder [10]
Kovnik Andrei Malakov [4]
- Juggernaut [12]
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew [0(4)]
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew [0(4)]
Winter Guard Infantry (max) [10]
- Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard [4]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Winter Guard Gun Carriage [17]

auraco
The Sky Fell

Posts: 1,594

Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK Jan 10, 2018 14:34:09 GMT

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Post by auraco on Jan 10, 2018 14:34:09 GMT

What about switching Sorscha1 for Vlad2 to run Wolves of winter? Your OW2 list doesn't have Ayana&holt so is already missing the magic attacks necessary to deal with Cryx and Grymkin. Something Vlad2 in Wolves of winter does pretty well.

benjamini
Junior Strategist

Posts: 245

Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK Jan 10, 2018 14:38:50 GMT

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Post by benjamini on Jan 10, 2018 14:38:50 GMT

That was one thing I was considering, I like Vlad 2 a lot. Lack of Ayana and Holt was the main reason I paired it with WoW the first time around - I wanted to fit them in the witch list, but really wasn't sure what I should give up for them.

borderprince
Junior Strategist

Posts: 974

Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK Jan 10, 2018 15:23:14 GMT

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Post by borderprince on Jan 10, 2018 15:23:14 GMT

Another for Vlad2 in Wolves for the magic weapons. And it'll play differently.

Just to be radical - you could try OW2 in Wolves and Vlad1 in WGK with almost the same list as you have for OW2 (get rid of Malakov, keep his Juggernaut). I suspect the OW2 WGK/Vlad2 Wolves build is better, but it's close.

What was it about the Sorscha1 list that left you dissatisfied?

benjamini
Junior Strategist

Posts: 245

Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK Jan 10, 2018 15:49:56 GMT

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Post by benjamini on Jan 10, 2018 15:49:56 GMT

Jan 10, 2018 15:23:14 GMT borderprince said:

What was it about the Sorscha1 list that left you dissatisfied?

I can't quite put my finger on it, I think it's mostly that I am used to playing Sorscha 1 with some guns and a melee heavy list felt weird with her. I did like that fog of war could help the Doomies get where they wanted to be mind you. The game I played her in was against a beast heavy legion list and I did pretty well.

It might also just be that there was never really a match-up that I ran into where I felt like I wanted to drop her instead of the witch that day. I didn't have any problem with the Sorscha list while I was testing it, but after playing it on the big day I realize that I could probably make myself happier with it if I worked in a unit of Nyss Hunters or something as another option.

I've cobbled together a Vlad 2 thing to give a whirl once I get some playtime though!

borderprince
Junior Strategist

Posts: 974

Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK Jan 10, 2018 16:35:40 GMT

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Post by borderprince on Jan 10, 2018 16:35:40 GMT

Jan 10, 2018 15:49:56 GMT benjamini said:

I didn't have any problem with the Sorscha list while I was testing it, but after playing it on the big day I realize that I could probably make myself happier with it if I worked in a unit of Nyss Hunters or something as another option.

So maybe something like:
Sorscha1
-Conquest
Doomreavers
Doomreavers
Doomreavers
Nyss Hunters (max) + Valachev (free)
Fenris
Forgeseer (free)

Forgeseer to help Sorscha fuel Conquest. Valachev isn't required, but works so well with the Nyss. And Conquest gives some board control and a model which can destroy pretty much anything on the other side of the board, especially with Boundless Charge to let it arrive with full focus.

I can see it working. But I can't find a way to get Reinholdt or Sylys for Sorscha, which is annoying.

And it has a nice 'primitive warriors' kind of feel. Well, 'primitive warriors + giant robot'. That should be the pitch for a movie.

benjamini
Junior Strategist

Posts: 245

Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK Jan 10, 2018 20:13:54 GMT

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Post by benjamini on Jan 10, 2018 20:13:54 GMT

Border Prince, I like the list, but I've got something to confess: at present I only own two units of Doom Reavers. I've got a couple weeks, so I could probably pick up another box if I needed to. In WoW lists in the past I have usually compensated with an juggernaut or marauder. That being said, even though they are weaker, Nyss Hunters under the effect of HoF may also be able to compensate for an effect even with the Skornergy inherent with Vlad's feat and them being a character unit.

Here's what I've rigged up for Vlad (though it could easily be a Sorscha list with a jackswap). There's probably some weaknesses here and it only has two units of doom reavers, but I think this may be a valid build for dealing with incorporeal shenanigans. We're probably not "there" yet, but it's a start. Maybe Fenris could become Saxon and another Forge Seer.

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Wolves of Winter

(Vladimir 2) Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Champion [+27]
- Destroyer [14]
- Drago [14] (doesn't have to be Drago, but a 14 pt jack)
Fenris [9]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
Koldun Lord [4]
Koldun Lord [4]
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19]
- Koldun Kapitan Valachev [0(4)]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [13]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [13]
Greylord Outriders (min) [12]

Last Edit: Jan 10, 2018 20:16:25 GMT by benjamini

borderprince
Junior Strategist

Posts: 974

Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK Jan 11, 2018 7:03:42 GMT

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Post by borderprince on Jan 11, 2018 7:03:42 GMT

Jan 10, 2018 20:13:54 GMT benjamini said:

Border Prince, I like the list, but I've got something to confess: at present I only own two units of Doom Reavers.

To be honest, Vlad2 in Wolves probably isn't the best choice then. You will take casualties on the way in, and you might not have enough Doomreavers left for an effective feat turn. It's a problem with glass-cannon type models like Doomreavers. You either need very good protection, or quantity.

benjamini
Junior Strategist

Posts: 245

Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK Jan 12, 2018 14:14:41 GMT

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Post by benjamini on Jan 12, 2018 14:14:41 GMT

You are probably correct on that front. That being said, if the goal of this is to deal with situations where magic weapons are necessary... Cryx lists that tend to require magic weapons and Grymkin in general are not particularly known for their shooting.

Any suggestions as to how saturated my list should be with magic weapons to effectively play into these lists? Would somehow cramming Aiyana and Holt into the witch list be enough?

Last Edit: Jan 12, 2018 14:20:00 GMT by benjamini

borderprince
Junior Strategist

Posts: 974

Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK Jan 13, 2018 11:22:02 GMT

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Post by borderprince on Jan 13, 2018 11:22:02 GMT

You're right about Cryx/Grymkin not being known for shooting. But Ghost Fleet (with Blackbanes and/or Wraith Engines) often has 9 riflemen. That's enough to make a significant dent in your offensive power. Because a Vlad2 list will be relying on the Doomreavers for much of the heavy lifting, that's a potentially serious problem.

I think you need to think whether you can handle both Blackbanes and a Wraith Engine, or multiple Gremlin Swarms. A&H alone probably aren't enough for that. A&H + Ruin has game (but will require a Butcher list) as A&H can magic up a unit's attacks to deal with multiple softer targets, Ruin can do for the Wraith Engine. Back in the pre-Wolves days, I quite liked Zerkova1 with marshalled Destroyers in Jaws. Sorcha1 might be able to do something similar.

benjamini
Junior Strategist

Posts: 245

Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK Jan 14, 2018 1:36:35 GMT

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Post by benjamini on Jan 14, 2018 1:36:35 GMT

I think I've actually become generally complacent when it comes to magic shenanigans because I've actually gotten off pretty lucky so far in terms of having to play into things like Ghost Fleet. Locally not to many people play it, and any time I've seen it in a pairing they always tend to drop the other list! That being said, it's power is still something to respect and I need to be aware of it.

That being said, I don't mind playing a Butcher or Zerkova 1. Now to feverishly brew lists!

benjamini
Junior Strategist

Posts: 245

Finding something to pair with OW 2 in WGK Jan 17, 2018 20:18:17 GMT

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Post by benjamini on Jan 17, 2018 20:18:17 GMT

Alright, I've had some time to stew. I can modify the original Old Witch list to include Aiyana and Holt by dropping one of field gun crews and the kayazy eliminators, this leaves me with a point left over and no Valachev... unsure if it is worth it. Though I've had a couple games under my belt with that Old Witch 2 list since I originally posted it and I REALLY like it!

As far as a pairing goes, here is what my deranged mind has come up with:

Old Witch 1 (Why not double down on my favourite character in the setting!)

-Pros: Very familiar with all the moving parts
-Cons: Banes exist and have wraith engines and tend to eat jacks

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Jaws of the Wolf

(Old Witch 1) The Old Witch of Khador [+18]
- Destroyer [14]
- Marauder [10]
- Marauder [10]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
- Behemoth [25]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
Widowmaker Marksman [4]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8]
- Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4]
Widowmaker Scouts [8]

Sorscha 1:
-Pros: Basically what I ran last but with no Doomie UAs, and Nyss Hunters. Servicable but kind of dull.
-Cons: May not be heavy enough on the magic weapons, Concealment may not be enough to protect so few doom reavers.

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Wolves of Winter

(Sorscha 1) Kommander Sorscha [+29]
- Marauder [10]
- Spriggan [19]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
- Marauder [10]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
Saxon Orrik [4]
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [13]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [13]
Greylord Outriders (min) [12]

Butcher 3:
Pros: Also very familiar with all the moving parts, putting Aiyana and Holt in there gives most things in the list some pretty intense magic (maybe this is actually too heavy on the magic and Aiyana/Holt sShould be dumped to give me more Kayazy!)
Cons: Banes still, and Orsus and I have been on a break... this feels like I am crawling back to him.

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Jaws of the Wolf

(Butcher 3) Kommander Zoktavir, The Butcher Unleashed [+22]
- Devastator [14]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Ruin [17]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
- Behemoth [25]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
Widowmaker Marksman [0(4)]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8]
- Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4]