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Post by welshhoppo on Jan 2, 2018 15:45:20 GMT
I understand the frustration at Gatorman Posse being unattractive outside of Blindwater, but maybe it reflects a changing attitude of PP towards Mercs and Minions as a whole. Maybe they are now seen as primarily stand alone fully fledged factions, and the fact they will work for certain other factions is more of a side-note. Now that themes are the primary way to play and they most commonly allow a single solos and/or unit, the days of other factions taking armies with large numbers of mercs/minions is gone, and as long as there a few merc/minion solos or units that are appealing to other factions, it does not matter that the vast majority of the merc/minion catalougue will never be taken outside of dedicated merc/minion armies. I do remember seeing something during the insider phase of mkiii about reducing the amount of Merc-faction forces but making merc and minion troops not as good as those in faction, and by changing friendly benefits to faction friendly. The only "ranged" unit in Khador in mkii was the Nyss, as they were far better than the WGRC and WGI. However I have noticed PP starting to buck that trend, with the introduction of mercs in themes and the changing of a few rules, like changing gudience on the most speaker to friendly. Which I hate because now my legion opponent has an eyeless sight Craelix.....
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jan 2, 2018 19:17:38 GMT
Which I hate because now my legion opponent has an eyeless sight Craelix..... What? Eyeless sight, arching fire, Rof 3, poison, blessed? Nothing to see here, move along. [/sarcasm] 10points I will always be willing to pay. But I admit I've yet to ruin any one's day with it yet. It's, for lack of a better expression, a underhanded feeling. He was specifically meant to not have eyeless sight. Is 4 points enough of a tax to make it balanced? 10 points can get you a lot of work in many factions. But not so much in Legion. It seems exactly as powerful as I wish Legion was. But still... As for the CiD needing both players opinion. At least the few I've been involved with the poster (Cygnar) did mention most of my comments and I did chime in as well. I don't think it can be made a requirement. But I do hope that PP weighs the reports with both perspectives a good bit more than the solo posts. Not that I want them to disregard anything. But I have seen some rather outlandish reports before. Though the can of worms I would open is put forth a polling system on the battle reports. Just maybe something as simple as like/dislike on the original post. Just to get a quick reference of how many people disagree with the assessment.
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Post by Azuresun on Jan 2, 2018 21:23:53 GMT
It's another problem that got solved twice. Restricting most effects to friendly faction fixed the Mercnar problem (and it's nice that Merc players are no longer taxed for Arcane Shield & Iron Flesh), and cutting them out of themes was only a problem when themes became the One True Way to play.
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Post by pvtjoker on Jan 3, 2018 6:20:18 GMT
Regarding creep, what are thoughts on the Northkin release. I haven't played into it yet, but looking at it and talking with some of our Troll players it seems pretty powerful. Of course the grass is always greener in someone else's faction, but I'm worried PP's model expansion is going to cause creep.
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bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Jan 3, 2018 14:08:50 GMT
Regarding creep, what are thoughts on the Northkin release. I haven't played into it yet, but looking at it and talking with some of our Troll players it seems pretty powerful. Of course the grass is always greener in someone else's faction, but I'm worried PP's model expansion is going to cause creep. Well, Trolls needed it as they were on the low end of the power curve as a faction overall. You will probably see something similar with Legion. Cygnar and Cryx are probably better examples of expansion through CID. They both got powerful additions to the arsenal, but were also adjusted in other places that were too powerful... so if they bring a pair, yes CID releases can make it into the pair but overall the power level in the 2 list pair is fairly equivalent as the pre CID pair, there is just so much more breadth of options. The largest benefit of CID is adjusting the internal faction balance.
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 3, 2018 14:28:58 GMT
Regarding creep, what are thoughts on the Northkin release. I haven't played into it yet, but looking at it and talking with some of our Troll players it seems pretty powerful. Of course the grass is always greener in someone else's faction, but I'm worried PP's model expansion is going to cause creep. Really good, but in no way OP. I would actually say the northkin releases are on par with other CiD's excluding dark host. Trolls finally got a lot of cool and unique tools and a pretty fun theme to take them in. I think people are just not used to trolls actually making them ask hard questions after a whole year or so of being bottom of the heap. EG. The first time I played the new champions under madrack 1, I was scratching my head trying to think how to unravel them, before I just applied random heavy to unit and watched them die, now I actually have to think about how I approach removing the unit.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 3, 2018 14:35:43 GMT
Regarding creep, what are thoughts on the Northkin release. I haven't played into it yet, but looking at it and talking with some of our Troll players it seems pretty powerful. Of course the grass is always greener in someone else's faction, but I'm worried PP's model expansion is going to cause creep. The Northkin stuff seems mostly fine on first glance, the only thing that concerns me is Stumbling Drunk from the Hooch Hauler, but then as I am in the UK and the only way to get it is through BAHI and paying extortionate custom fees, that should hopefully dissuade Troll players over here buying it...
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Jan 3, 2018 14:52:47 GMT
The bone of contention seems to have shifted from lowered DEF to lowered boxes on heavy infantry. Both are legitimate concerns, but there is an unexplored point regarding the infantry I'd like to share.
Many players want to put heavy infantry on the table for sentimental or aesthetic reasons. Their larger profile allows for more detail. They tend to look "kewl", or simply resonate with player desires to put big, stompy...troopers on the table. That certainly was the case for me with GMP, not to mention how awesome they were in Skorne. I started to salivate when I saw how many debuff warlocks we were going to get in MKIII. Their nerfing to near irrelevance hurt. Especially bad was their new sculpts had just come out. They are gorgeous, and took to detailed painting well.
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 3, 2018 15:37:43 GMT
Regarding creep, what are thoughts on the Northkin release. I haven't played into it yet, but looking at it and talking with some of our Troll players it seems pretty powerful. Of course the grass is always greener in someone else's faction, but I'm worried PP's model expansion is going to cause creep. The Northkin stuff seems mostly fine on first glance, the only thing that concerns me is Stumbling Drunk from the Hooch Hauler, but then as I am in the UK and the only way to get it is through BAHI and paying extortionate custom fees, that should hopefully dissuade Troll players over here buying it... yeah, I think any meta not in the states is going to see a distinct lack of any huge bases moving forward. They really screwed themselves over with this BAHI stuff. Not sure how anyone can afford to pay all that money for the overseas shipping and such. I also think stumbling drunk is only going to be an issue with Borka 2 and a big brick of beasts. But he cannot run PoD if he wants the hauler meaning even that is limited. Stumbling drunk bears seems super hilarious though...
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Jan 3, 2018 16:27:33 GMT
Can someone explain why they think BAHI is going to make their purchases more expensive?
In South Africa when we order through our one local guy, or when we order through an online store like DGI, we end up bearing the cost of transport and taxes anyway. Why would BAHI be different from normal? Our local troll / minion player who got on board the BAHI train for the dracodile has actually found it to be cheaper than the normal route (not by much, but a bit)
-und_ed
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Post by welshhoppo on Jan 3, 2018 16:45:59 GMT
Can someone explain why they think BAHI is going to make their purchases more expensive? In South Africa when we order through our one local guy, or when we order through an online store like DGI, we end up bearing the cost of transport and taxes anyway. Why would BAHI be different from normal? Our local troll / minion player who got on board the BAHI train for the dracodile has actually found it to be cheaper than the normal route (not by much, but a bit) -und_ed It might be different there, but in the UK you can order things from gaming stores that are based in the UK, the import charges and taxes have already been paid for by the gaming store. So we just buy them here with only VAT on the amount. Howver, ordering something direct from the states means you'd have to slap the VAT on top of the amount to paid, as well as any import charges. Now, if the cost was halved, it would probably be cheaper, but it isn't. It is a bit less but not by enough. Add onto that a weak pound at the moment and it is even more expensive.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jan 3, 2018 17:01:01 GMT
Preordering also makes a massive difference. When you preorder BAHI you get free shipping and only have to worry about customs (a few hours of work, a bit of luck and ~20€ around here). If you don't preorder you also have to pay shipping and customs+taxes on the shipping.
Buying models from an EU online store just requires me to pick them up from a packet station (~5 minutes of work) and to pay ~90% MSRP. That is, if PP cab get their shit together and actually manage to distribute the models to the EU. Which seems to be way harder than every other company on the globe makes it look.
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