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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 12, 2017 10:09:15 GMT
So despite her latest nerf I feel like Haley 2 is probably still one of our best casters, I used to love playing her with Ragman in Mk2 and pre theme-machine. So I want to try and recreate some of that magical time.
Here is my rationale for building the list - Squire and Thorn are mandatory (obviously) - I want to play a Stormclad as my heavy, as it hits hard and has accumulator, so leaves Haley max focus to play with
So Thorn + Stormclad + Ragman + Juniors Firefly = 43 points
This means that the max free slots I can get in Storm Division is 2. I admit it may be better to drop the Stormclad for a Reliant/Ironclad/Hammersmith and get the 3 free slots, but for now I want a Stormclad.
The list I have come up with is:
Haley 2 - Squire (free) - Thorn - Stormclad
Junior (free) - Firefly Arlan Ragman Laddermore
Storm Strider
Min Storm Lances Min Storm Lances Min Meks
There are hopefully enough Lightning Generator shots to control infantry (using Storm Lances as spark nodes if needed), and combination of the usual TKs and feat to handle heavies.
What do you guys think? |
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173 
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Post by xadmar on Dec 12, 2017 15:45:04 GMT
I am running a list very similar to this right now with a few models swapped. I use Rhupert an Ironclad and a Centurion instead of Ragman, Meks, Stormclad, and Laddermore. I find the Storm Lances play into both her strengths (get alpha) and weaknesses (bad vs shooting). The SS with 3 ranged attacks with TA really cleans up. I am not sure if Laddermore is worth her points now but hopefully you can report back a positive experience.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 12, 2017 16:04:21 GMT
I am running a list very similar to this right now with a few models swapped. I use Rhupert an Ironclad and a Centurion instead of Ragman, Meks, Stormclad, and Laddermore. I find the Storm Lances play into both her strengths (get alpha) and weaknesses (bad vs shooting). The SS with 3 ranged attacks with TA really cleans up. I am not sure if Laddermore is worth her points now but hopefully you can report back a positive experience. Yeah guns are definitely her weakness now. I feel like if she had her feat changed in the first round of nerfs last February, then she probably could have kept Deflection. However classic PP failed to realise what actually made her too good, and adjusted unrelated things without actually solving the issue, and had to nerf her yet again to finally bring her in line.
Loss of Deflection is probably one of the main reasons I am now preferring Haley 3 over Haley 2 in Storm Division. Haley 3 helps Storm Lances survive better at range, and Revive is arguably worth its extortionate cost when bringing them back
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173
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Post by xadmar on Dec 12, 2017 17:16:17 GMT
I am running a list very similar to this right now with a few models swapped. I use Rhupert an Ironclad and a Centurion instead of Ragman, Meks, Stormclad, and Laddermore. I find the Storm Lances play into both her strengths (get alpha) and weaknesses (bad vs shooting). The SS with 3 ranged attacks with TA really cleans up. I am not sure if Laddermore is worth her points now but hopefully you can report back a positive experience. Yeah guns are definitely her weakness now. I feel like if she had her feat changed in the first round of nerfs last February, then she probably could have kept Deflection. However classic PP failed to realise what actually made her too good, and adjusted unrelated things without actually solving the issue, and had to nerf her yet again to finally bring her in line.
Loss of Deflection is probably one of the main reasons I am now preferring Haley 3 over Haley 2 in Storm Division. Haley 3 helps Storm Lances survive better at range, and Revive is arguably worth its extortionate cost when bringing them back
I do miss deflection a lot but it is nice to have the no knockdown from Force Field and the immunity to blast with her low arm. I do wonder if I can swap Ragman in to replace Rhupert but I have been finding Rhuperts defensive and pathfinder buffs helpful. |
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Post by sludgeogre on Dec 12, 2017 20:27:05 GMT
I've played a similar list a few times as well and my major problem is stupid Ret infantry and other high armor infantry that the Storm Strider can't reliably pick apart or threaten. Once those units get to you, the game is basically over, so it can't be dropped into anything like that and your other list needs to handle it, which Trenchers can't reliably do, either, unless you're running Commandos. This is why I've gone with Stryker1 in Storm Division as he can weather that first infantry hit with no problem and Stormblades or Lances will then get a lot of work done. Stryker2 even has some game since Decel is pretty fantastic.
Also, I have a real problem with paying 8 points for Laddermore now. She's basically a Firefly with Veteran Leader instead of Ionization and fewer boxes, without the ability to boost. If she was a 6 point solo that could be taken for free, it would change the story entirely. As she is now, I feel like she's way over-costed, especially compared to other veteran leader solos, like Finn, who is far more survivable and always gets way more work done for me. Sure, having lances at Rat 5 sucks, but since their gun also sucks now, I'm not worried about it and it hasn't been an issue for me.
I also don't think this list needs Ragman since his death field is pretty hard to apply to a decent number of large based models and he can't keep up with Lances to save his life. I would rather take Rhupert to give one unit pathfinder when needed as it can make a pretty monumental difference, and concealment on the approach is fantastic.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 13, 2017 14:58:07 GMT
I've played a similar list a few times as well and my major problem is stupid Ret infantry and other high armor infantry that the Storm Strider can't reliably pick apart or threaten. Once those units get to you, the game is basically over, so it can't be dropped into anything like that and your other list needs to handle it, which Trenchers can't reliably do, either, unless you're running Commandos. This is why I've gone with Stryker1 in Storm Division as he can weather that first infantry hit with no problem and Stormblades or Lances will then get a lot of work done. Stryker2 even has some game since Decel is pretty fantastic. Also, I have a real problem with paying 8 points for Laddermore now. She's basically a Firefly with Veteran Leader instead of Ionization and fewer boxes, without the ability to boost. If she was a 6 point solo that could be taken for free, it would change the story entirely. As she is now, I feel like she's way over-costed, especially compared to other veteran leader solos, like Finn, who is far more survivable and always gets way more work done for me. Sure, having lances at Rat 5 sucks, but since their gun also sucks now, I'm not worried about it and it hasn't been an issue for me. I also don't think this list needs Ragman since his death field is pretty hard to apply to a decent number of large based models and he can't keep up with Lances to save his life. I would rather take Rhupert to give one unit pathfinder when needed as it can make a pretty monumental difference, and concealment on the approach is fantastic. I still find Laddermore worth her points, mat 8 impact attacks are great, and rat 6 on the assault shot is worthwhile as you can easily get it to pow 14 or 16. She also counts towards free points which a Firefly does not.
I have never had a problem applying Ragman with Storm Lances, Haley can TK the enemy closer and TK Ragman forward if need be.
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Post by sludgeogre on Dec 13, 2017 17:38:06 GMT
I've played a similar list a few times as well and my major problem is stupid Ret infantry and other high armor infantry that the Storm Strider can't reliably pick apart or threaten. Once those units get to you, the game is basically over, so it can't be dropped into anything like that and your other list needs to handle it, which Trenchers can't reliably do, either, unless you're running Commandos. This is why I've gone with Stryker1 in Storm Division as he can weather that first infantry hit with no problem and Stormblades or Lances will then get a lot of work done. Stryker2 even has some game since Decel is pretty fantastic. Also, I have a real problem with paying 8 points for Laddermore now. She's basically a Firefly with Veteran Leader instead of Ionization and fewer boxes, without the ability to boost. If she was a 6 point solo that could be taken for free, it would change the story entirely. As she is now, I feel like she's way over-costed, especially compared to other veteran leader solos, like Finn, who is far more survivable and always gets way more work done for me. Sure, having lances at Rat 5 sucks, but since their gun also sucks now, I'm not worried about it and it hasn't been an issue for me. I also don't think this list needs Ragman since his death field is pretty hard to apply to a decent number of large based models and he can't keep up with Lances to save his life. I would rather take Rhupert to give one unit pathfinder when needed as it can make a pretty monumental difference, and concealment on the approach is fantastic. I still find Laddermore worth her points, mat 8 impact attacks are great, and rat 6 on the assault shot is worthwhile as you can easily get it to pow 14 or 16. She also counts towards free points which a Firefly does not.
I have never had a problem applying Ragman with Storm Lances, Haley can TK the enemy closer and TK Ragman forward if need be.
I realize the Firefly doesn't count for free points, I'm just comparing their values as models, but I'd just rather usually take Arlan and Rhupert over her in my lists now, even if it means I stay at 2 free solos. I'm usually pretty far off from getting to 3 anyway. If I'm going for the full 60 points of Stormnouns, I'm always including her to get there. I don't ever find her impact attack to get much work done besides killing one extra dude, but yeah she can do buttloads of work on a good assault. Maybe I should just play more balls-out with her instead of keeping her back too often. As far as TK, I don't really play Haley2 that much and when I do I get pretty greedy with her focus and spending it on Ragman is usually lower on my list of priorities, but I'm not that great with her so I'm probably doing it wrong. |
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173
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Post by xadmar on Dec 13, 2017 18:07:48 GMT
Yeah I have been finding it really hard with Haley to hit that 3 point solo threshold. My Maddox list easily does it but I find I want more jacks with Haley.
I think since I have been trying to practice more scenario play with SR2017 I am liking Rhupert over Ragman due to flags being more prevalent. I have the ability to stick him on one and still use his abilities where Ragman I really want in the thick of battle.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 14, 2017 9:29:48 GMT
I still find Laddermore worth her points, mat 8 impact attacks are great, and rat 6 on the assault shot is worthwhile as you can easily get it to pow 14 or 16. She also counts towards free points which a Firefly does not.
I have never had a problem applying Ragman with Storm Lances, Haley can TK the enemy closer and TK Ragman forward if need be.
I realize the Firefly doesn't count for free points, I'm just comparing their values as models, but I'd just rather usually take Arlan and Rhupert over her in my lists now, even if it means I stay at 2 free solos. I'm usually pretty far off from getting to 3 anyway. If I'm going for the full 60 points of Stormnouns, I'm always including her to get there. I don't ever find her impact attack to get much work done besides killing one extra dude, but yeah she can do buttloads of work on a good assault. Maybe I should just play more balls-out with her instead of keeping her back too often. As far as TK, I don't really play Haley2 that much and when I do I get pretty greedy with her focus and spending it on Ragman is usually lower on my list of priorities, but I'm not that great with her so I'm probably doing it wrong. Sorry I wasn't clear in my post, I meant her veteran leader giving mat 8 impacts and rat 6 to other Storm Lances is great I have found, and a boosted mat 8 charge hits pretty much anything |
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Post by sludgeogre on Dec 14, 2017 20:41:41 GMT
I dunno, Mat 7 boosted charges already barely ever miss for me. It just seems pretty overkill. I don't care much about going to Rat 6 as their shots are just icing on the cake now that they don't leap, so it feels like a waste to bring vet leader on Pow 12 shots that you only use on the charge typically. *shrug* I'll have to keep trying it, but Gravediggers keeps taking my attention away.
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