spirit
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 3
|
Post by spirit on Mar 31, 2017 18:57:20 GMT
Hello everyone,
I just started out with legion and have a sizeable but far from complete collection. With most of the lists being discussed currently including Sorceress&Hellion or multiple Helmouths if not in theme I was wondering if there are competetive lists without those choices, that fit my collection.
I have Abby2 Thags1 Vayl1 Vayl2 Rhyas1 Saeryn1 Twins Lylyth1 Lylyth2
Typhon Zuriel Carnivean 2x magnetized Carni Chassis 2x Angelius 1x Seraph 1x Neraph 2x Raek 1x Protector 1x Bloodseer 1x Teraph 1x Naga 4x Shredder
2x Warspears + UA 1x Strider Scouts + UA 1x Raptors 2x Shepherd 2x Forsaken 2x Deathstalker 3x Spell Martyr 1x Anyssa
I think I might have enough stuff to build a good Abby2, Thags1 or Vayl2 list, but it's always missing a key piece. No Boltthrower in Vayl2 hurts, no Helmouth in Abby2 hurts. Suggestions? I'm thinking of getting a battlebox for the Bolththrower and 2nd Neraph next and then adding Proteus and a Helmouth. Won't have the cash for the next couple months though.
List wise I thought about this one:
Legion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Oracles of Annihilation
(Thagrosh 1) Thagrosh, Prophet of Everblight [+28] - Carnivean [19] - Carnivean [19] - Carnivean [19] - Naga Nightlurker [8] - Seraph [14] - Typhon [24] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [0] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [0] The Forsaken [0] The Forsaken [0]
This uses just the models I have and is really, really bricky. I could downgrade one of the Carniveans to a Scythean and add a free succubus while paying 1 for the Shepherd. Maybe a spellmartyr for emergency oblits would also be good. I kind of think the list wants helmouths or deathstalkers for anti infantry, but the idea of 4 free solos on top of 5 heavies is sooo good.
I could run a similar list with Abby2, but I think Vayl2 would make a better pair out of the locks I have. Any suggestions how to build her with minimal purchases required?
Thanks in advance
|
|
Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Lanz on Apr 1, 2017 11:26:34 GMT
It's a good starting point. One of the problems with the new theme list-focused meta (as if there weren't enough already) is that general collections like this are stuck either not playing in theme, or needing to purchase into theme. It almost seems like it might be better now to buy into a faction with a theme in mind.
Your Oracles list looks like a good starting point. That's not a bad thagrosh1 list by any stretch. My suggestion would be to run one of those carniveans as a Ravagore, however, because you'll run into fury problems with too many carniveans all in one go, whereas a ravagore will typically just need 2 fury every turn and can be handled by the shepherds alone. When you ultimately do decide to have it pull weight in melee, it can be given draconic blessing to hit hard anyways. It doesn't benefit from the durability-skew like typhon and Carniveans do, but it also can stay more safely away until it's ready as well, so it's still a good attrition piece.
Abby2 can literally be run in Oracles as a scythean/carnivean spam with a seraph (you need the seraph even with the feat). A neraph or 2 can be added to this for meaningful impact. You don't -need- hellmouths for her specifically. A screen is nice, but I find that a good abby2 list should either have a huge ranged advantage or an alpha strike advantage, and in either case a screen isn't as essential. I strongly suggest picking up Proteus, however. Or even just finding the conversion kit and using one of your existing magnetized chassis. You might even consider breaking down your fixed carnivean and turning it into Proteus. I can think of no list that would want 3 carniveans but wouldn't consider something else over it.
Purchasing suggestions: - Proteus. An excellent beast in general, but if you want to play Abby2, it's all the bigger a deal. - A succubus. It's not too expensive $$-wise, and it's a candidate for a free model in both Oracles and Children. Most casters benefit from one. - A sorceress. It's not only for the theme lists, really. Legion emphasizes its flyers a bit more in mk3 than mk2 with stuff like buffing the soldier, the neraph, the speed drop on the carnivean chassis, etc. We just take more flyers now, and free charges on those flyers is a pretty big deal. That she is free in oracles is extra money, because she's a good solo overall, but even if you don't want to fork out for 2 of them, one is probably a good idea. - Melee Units. Hex Hunters for Oracles, or Nyss Swordsmen for CoTD or out of theme, or hellmouths for out of theme. They aren't essential in any case, but they're all good somewhere. - Battlebox. A second neraph is good to have, kryssa is... worth playing around with. Bolt thrower is good to have. It's basically the price of 2 bolt throwers, so it's an economic buy, even if you never touch Kryssa.
So if you bought, for example, the battlebox, a succubus, and a hellion, you could do this and either use the carnivean or if you get the proteus kit, that instead:
Legion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Oracles of Annihilation
(Absylonia 2) Absylonia, Daughter of Everblight [+28] - Carnivean [19](or Proteus) - Nephilim Bloodseer [8] - Neraph [12] - Neraph [12] - Scythean [18] - Scythean [18] - Seraph [14] - Succubus [0] Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion [0] Spell Martyr [1] Spell Martyr [1] The Forsaken [0] The Forsaken [0]
|
|
|
Post by cainuslupus on Apr 1, 2017 16:06:14 GMT
Good information is that you have all essentials covered. Whatever else you buy is just a matter of list you will field. Which is hard to tell without playing much...
First of all I would consider Oracles as theme for Abby2 and Thagrosh. I would consider Protheus as he is must have with Absylonia1 i 2 and most of other casters love him too. As a second buy I would take Sorceress on Helion, then Succubus.
After that I would play few games with proxied Hexhunters and Bayal too see whether you like them in Oracles. I play them with Abby2 as screen and they jam pretty well, giving you extra space. Because new Steamroller is comming soon-ish it might be needed to run some infantry. Hexhunters are hit or miss with most people so test begore you buy.
As mainly Absylonia2 player I would shy away from Scytheans, would rather take Carnivean or Ravagore. Ravagore under Alpha Hunter kills stuff in meelee, and with Feat is brutall at takes people offguard. I've assassinated Father Lucant with one in meelee (I had Carnivean as backup but never needed it).
Most importantly - have fun 😊
|
|
spirit
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 3
|
Post by spirit on Apr 3, 2017 16:22:33 GMT
Thanks for the write-up. I appreciate the effort you put into it.
I have the feeling too, that you have to buy with themes in mind. Especially with themes giving you models for free that were otherwise not taken (i.e. Hellion).
Lanz: Your point about fury efficiency is a good one, I think I'll switch in a ravagore, which makes the list also feel a bit less spammy. I'd also like some anti infantry in the form of deathstalkers in the list, but I'd essentially be sacrificing a heavy to include them and at that point I don't think they are worth it. I'll just make the list I pair this with full of infantry hate and I should be good, even if it might force list chicken.
Your purchasing suggestions seem good, I think I'll start with the Battlebox+Succubus+Hellion you suggested because it buys me into the theme and also opens up the Lylyths and Vayl a bit more with the Boltthrower. Kryssa is a bit meh in my opinion, too many other locks step on her toes and generally do stuff better than she does, but she's just a bonus on the discount I get on the other models. Outside of a tournament I should be fine proxy-ing Proteus for a few weeks to test him in my meta.
Your proposed Oracels list for Abby2 looks a lot more well-rounded than the Thags1 list I came up with. 6 Heavies, and quick ones at that, will certainly do some nice work and the double Neraph dips nicely into the extra utility offered by the Hellion. One question though: Why a Bloodseer over a Naga? I get, that he's there to be an extra slipstream and maybe telemetry a hexbolt for Abby, but giving up Wraithbane could hurt the list a lot into armor buffs. Maybe I should just test both variants.
Cainuslupus: I like the style of hex hunters, but the loss of stealth really hurts them on paper. I will make sure to proxy and see how I like them. The community seems to be somewhat torn on their usefulness. Apparition sure is a nice bonus for them.
Maybe the Abby2 gunline is a nice idea as well, I think it was also discussed here on the forums.
|
|