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Post by killroundears on Nov 4, 2017 14:13:35 GMT
i absolutely love this guys model and the sheer level of pure violence he can dish out.
but hes SPD4 and 18pts.
He was very rare to see even in mk2 in any "top table lists". Do you think hes overcosted or just too slow and reactive, or do you think hes fine as is?
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Nov 4, 2017 16:09:00 GMT
I play him a lot but I also don't bring the most competitive lists.
He hits like a truck but is also one of our few heavies with mat 7. If you can put any kind of damage buff on him he stands a good chance of wrecking 2 heavies in a turn.
With beat back and counter charge he does a decent job of controlling where your opponent puts his models.
As has been said before his biggest problem is delivery. His low speed and his weakness to concentrated shooting makes it hard to deliver him. Pair this with his high cost in a world if 10-12 point heavy warjacks and it gets tricky to not end up trading down with him.
I've found the best way to use him us to follow skorne's supposed counter attack design philosophy. You need to keep him in your backfield as a guard dog for your support pieces until you can lure out a worthy target for his wrath.
Use one of our durable anvil options like a sentry or a pair of brutes to threaten scenario pressure or assassination and force them to commit something big to remove it. Anything that can take out a sentry with an agonizer or other armor buff is probably worth sending the bronzeback after the next turn.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 4, 2017 16:47:11 GMT
I take him in a Zaadesh2 brick with four other titans. His primary role in the first phase is Fury management, and after the trading begins he becomes a sweeper. If I wasn't committed to running heavy titans in a list, I'd probably not put him on the table much.
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156 
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Post by cassus on Nov 5, 2017 12:36:39 GMT
He has a solid place in my Zaadesh2 6 heavy list which does great in my local meta but outside of a list with a lot of titans in it he has pretty tough competition from the Ardus Soldier at 16 points. Both beast can kill a gargantuan in 1 turn and both threat 10 when rushed.
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Post by killroundears on Nov 5, 2017 20:27:51 GMT
He has a solid place in my Zaadesh2 6 heavy list which does great in my local meta but outside of a list with a lot of titans in it he has pretty tough competition from the Ardus Soldier at 16 points. Both beast can kill a gargantuan in 1 turn and both threat 10 when rushed. Do you ever miss his MAT7 + chance to sneak in a PS18 headbutt during his initials, or for you is the mat6 aradus soldier just generally superior? |
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Nov 5, 2017 22:45:29 GMT
All of the titans are over priced; that's a solid fact. The bronzeback, however, gets his use from fury controlling all the other titans, allowing someone like Xerxis2 to take command of a titan brick and start smashing faces.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 5, 2017 22:45:40 GMT
The Aradus Soldier competition is tough, with both having their own strengths. I think the MAT difference is an important tipping point, depending on what the target is.
I want a BB for primarily two reasons: potentially being able to one-round any heavy or colossal, and Fury management for a herd. The Aradus competes with the first, and for the second offers instead a slight discount and effective immunity to shooting.
When it comes to just killing anything it can reach, I prefer the BB. The primary reason is that both bring overkill v. a normal heavy, but against a colossal, the MAT issue doesn't matter, but the inability for the Soldier to drag the colossal into bite range does. Both have native delivery issues, but with Beatback the BB has slightly better ability to deliver itself, offsetting its stubby arms.
All this said, I really think the BB makes most sense in a list with at least 2+ titans. That can amount to two extra Fury a turn, which is huge. Otherwise, you might look at the Soldier.
Neither though are my first choice these days. Sentries all the way. We have a bajillion was to pump damage, and they being so much native tech at their price it's the best choice for me most times.
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Post by killroundears on Nov 6, 2017 0:55:44 GMT
The Aradus Soldier competition is tough, with both having their own strengths. I think the MAT difference is an important tipping point, depending on what the target is. I want a BB for primarily two reasons: potentially being able to one-round any heavy or colossal, and Fury management for a herd. The Aradus competes with the first, and for the second offers instead a slight discount and effective immunity to shooting. When it comes to just killing anything it can reach, I prefer the BB. The primary reason is that both bring overkill v. a normal heavy, but against a colossal, the MAT issue doesn't matter, but the inability for the Soldier to drag the colossal into bite range does. Both have native delivery issues, but with Beatback the BB has slightly better ability to deliver itself, offsetting its stubby arms. All this said, I really think the BB makes most sense in a list with at least 2+ titans. That can amount to two extra Fury a turn, which is huge. Otherwise, you might look at the Soldier. Neither though are my first choice these days. Sentries all the way. We have a bajillion was to pump damage, and they being so much native tech at their price it's the best choice for me most times. So do you prefer the bronzeback / soldier "i dont need buffs" style beater in lists without damage buffs and sentries otherwise? |
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 6, 2017 1:24:24 GMT
[/quote]
So do you prefer the bronzeback / soldier "i dont need buffs" style beater in lists without damage buffs and sentries otherwise? [/quote]
Yeah, pretty much. If Enrage is enough to meet your list requirements for damage adjustment, then yeah.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Nov 6, 2017 14:04:48 GMT
I use him to lead my Titan herd with Xerxes2, though I've found the basics of the list (Imperial Warhost) work with a bunch of casters (Rasheth, Naaresh, etc). I treat him as fury management combo'd with a stronger than normal Titan Gladiator. These lists typically have 4 Titans (including BB himself), at which point he makes the fury management much easier. At only 3 more points than the Gladiator, he includes about half the functionality of a Beast Handlers unit (saving me 2.5 points there), so I'm paying about half a point for a more survivable, much harder hitting Gladiator with a fairly useful targetable animus. He ends up being pretty lynchpin in my lists.
Now, a reasonable question you may ask: why use a Titan herd at all instead of spamming Archidons and Rhinodons and Derp Turtles? I'm still working on an answer to this myself, but with bonus Agonizers and Kreas from the theme, they pretty much crush any jack spam list I've encountered, while being largely unbothered by shooting. I'm not sure if Don-spam would work as well into so much armor spam.
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by cassus on Nov 6, 2017 15:59:54 GMT
He has a solid place in my Zaadesh2 6 heavy list which does great in my local meta but outside of a list with a lot of titans in it he has pretty tough competition from the Ardus Soldier at 16 points. Both beast can kill a gargantuan in 1 turn and both threat 10 when rushed. Do you ever miss his MAT7 + chance to sneak in a PS18 headbutt during his initials, or for you is the mat6 aradus soldier just generally superior? Honestly no, I don't miss the mat7 as Zaadesh2's feat does a good job of fixing mat problems. For me the 2" reach is a big deal and makes it easy to engage more than 1 heavy at time. Math wise they are both very close on killing power and so that's a wash. |
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