didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166 
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Post by didder on Oct 25, 2017 3:45:29 GMT
In winds of death, Gargantuans can't gain from the swift Hunter.
In imperial Warhost, Gargantuans can't gain from hyper Aggressive.
In Exalted, Gargantuans can't gain from the movement of death rage, though they can still make the melee attack.
Gargantuans can't even be taken in Warhost.
In disciples of Agony, the dracodile might edge out our own Gargantuans as a choice.
In all, it seems like there is an awful lot of discouragement from our themes to run Skorne Gargantuans. Perhaps swift Hunter and hyper Aggressive are worthless benefits that can be ignored. That's it's own problem though.
At least in Imperial Warhost, a gargantuan can enjoy 2" extra deployment. However, one of our best warlocks for the theme is Zaadesh2, and gargantuans can't gain from either his countercharge or clouds. Anamanterax kind of pushes out gargatuans too. I'd rather run two SA than a mammoth any day. At least Xerxis2 is good for one.
In disciples of agony a splatter boar giving the mammoth lucky shot seems worthwhile.
How do folks feel about running a gargantuan? I don't have a gargantuan yet, and I don't really feel excited to get one or play one.
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Post by illrede on Oct 25, 2017 4:12:22 GMT
In Exalted, Gargantuans can't gain from the movement of death rage, though they can still make the melee attack. That hardly counts. It's not like Death Rage creates much pressure to take more beasts than you were inclined to to begin with. It's an unboosted swing- I hardly bother to cast Ornery as is- a small trap for the opponent, a small clock hazard for you. |
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Post by killroundears on Oct 25, 2017 4:42:20 GMT
I think Winds is their best spot, since the mammoth is a serious gun platform and the hydra is rat 6 now. Swift hunter is a small benefit compared to having the big guns on an extremely reliable body that will win a melee with any individual.
the big problem gargs have is effective piece trading since they're such a huge investment of points. Thats why i tend to avoid them because all of skornes current pieces are mostly excellent. been running lots of MoW infantry swarms even into armor fairly well (lots of weapon masters or power swell etc)
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Oct 25, 2017 10:41:20 GMT
The SA changes put them on the shelf. It will be perminent if no changes are made
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Post by far2casual on Oct 25, 2017 12:52:19 GMT
Agree. 2 Animantaraxes are less than them, with more hitboxes, more presence on the table, 3* more attacks ...
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Post by jagius021 on Oct 25, 2017 21:15:46 GMT
I agree that deathly rage isn't all that enticing. A mammoth with zaal is still really good. I still love them with Morg 1. Both in doa. The mammoth with a splatter boar is amazing shooting and the Hydra with gladiator reaches ludicrous speeds. 2 ambushing units keeps your opponents bunch up for the sprays or aoes to do work.
The issue is that you have to build around them and there are a lot of other good options like SA. There should always be an opportunity cost to every unit, but that shows a bit more for us now that we are balanced. Think about mk2... We actually sometimes use a rhinodon now. A rhinodon! In mk2 I paid bulk bits price for one (a dollar) and was told I over paid! With more viable options it's harder to auto-include like we used to with some models. Hell I've even ran lists without pgbh. Except sa. Sa is so good.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Oct 26, 2017 1:41:07 GMT
With Splatter Boar and Morghoul2, the Mammoth is legit. I've not proxied the Dracodile, but highly accurate boostable AoEs are boss.
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psyllus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
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Post by psyllus on Oct 26, 2017 3:14:49 GMT
In winds of death, Gargantuans can't gain from the swift Hunter. In imperial Warhost, Gargantuans can't gain from hyper Aggressive. In Exalted, Gargantuans can't gain from the movement of death rage, though they can still make the melee attack. Gargantuans can't even be taken in Warhost. In disciples of Agony, the dracodile might edge out our own Gargantuans as a choice. WoD - The main theme benefit is the wall to bunker your warlock behind exactly where you want it. Besides, Swift Hunter on models with 4-5 ranged attacks would be pretty broken. IWH - True, but that Shield Guard next to the gargantuan sure can. Exalted - I take Exalted for the free souls. Death Rage is just a extra benefit. That said, our gargantuans don't usually get shot off the table, so whatever killed them is probably in their melee range. Warhost - I wouldn't mind some heavy guns behind my board-spanning shield wall... DoA - The theme can stack ridiculous amounts of buffs on all three gargantuans to the point that their melee potentials all become 'it's dead.' The main difference comes down to, do you want: A. Strong anti-ranged tech B. Blind spray and rough-terrain bubble C. Giant guns All three look equally viable to me. It just depends on how you want to build the list. |
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Oct 26, 2017 10:28:22 GMT
Warhost - I wouldn't mind some heavy guns behind my board-spanning shield wall... I would love it to if it was legal but no warbeasts with guns are allowed in war host This is actually a big part of the problem given where themes seem to be shaking out |
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Oct 26, 2017 22:14:59 GMT
Still not sure why they had to axe ranged warbeasts other then to stop the shaman.
The cygnar gun mages theme was the only other one I can think of that locks off Battle group options based on rang d weapons and they just removed that clause in the last CID because it was to restrictive for list building.
Why did they feel the need to lock off ranged beasts in a list that doesn't reward you for taking them and already has ranged infantry options?
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Oct 26, 2017 23:38:42 GMT
Still not sure why they had to axe ranged warbeasts other then to stop the shaman. The cygnar gun mages theme was the only other one I can think of that locks off Battle group options based on rang d weapons and they just removed that clause in the last CID because it was to restrictive for list building. Why did they feel the need to lock off ranged beasts in a list that doesn't reward you for taking them and already has ranged infantry options? Because Skorne themes were made by a fluff monster. I don't have a problem with no shooting heavies or lights, but keeping out gargs is a real pain. Several lists I had wanted to try are out the window. |
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Post by killroundears on Oct 27, 2017 2:16:09 GMT
Still not sure why they had to axe ranged warbeasts other then to stop the shaman. The cygnar gun mages theme was the only other one I can think of that locks off Battle group options based on rang d weapons and they just removed that clause in the last CID because it was to restrictive for list building. Why did they feel the need to lock off ranged beasts in a list that doesn't reward you for taking them and already has ranged infantry options? There are much more restrictive BG themes out there like Legion's themes lol. Skorne got off pretty light, even if it sucks |
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didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on Oct 27, 2017 2:54:13 GMT
I think they were desperately trying to get us to play the shooty Cataphracts.
I got a few lists with them. Min units.
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Post by Cryptix on Oct 27, 2017 3:03:06 GMT
They aren't going to get me to use Acurarri until they fix the rules so that drag can actually be used by things that aren't large bases. Seriously, a bunch of medium based units would get a lot better if you could CRA and drag large bases.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Oct 27, 2017 3:09:36 GMT
They aren't going to get me to use Acurarri until they fix the rules so that drag can actually be used by things that aren't large bases. Seriously, a bunch of medium based units would get a lot better if you could CRA and drag large bases. I can't imagine a situation where that ever happens. Use Mak1 who keeps them alive forever and speeds them up or Hexy1 who lets them put the hurt on hard at range. Maybe a min unit with Xerxis1. |
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