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Post by albertairish on Oct 17, 2017 16:31:21 GMT
So in Company of Iron the Incorporeal trait gives you -1 damage die against Incorporeal models if the attack isn't magical.
This, to me, seems like a pretty elegant toning down of Incorporeal and would be a good change to implement in the standard game to reduce the skew. Thoughts?
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Post by chillychinaman on Oct 17, 2017 16:36:43 GMT
Hypothetically speaking, what would happen if a crippled jack/beast decides to attack an incorporeal model without a magic weapon? Straight POW(+STR)? Or allow for a minimum 1d6 roll? Maybe reduce it to a d3?
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Post by albertairish on Oct 17, 2017 16:40:17 GMT
Hypothetically speaking, what would happen if a crippled jack/beast decides to attack an incorporeal model without a magic weapon? Straight POW(+STR)? Or allow for a minimum 1d6 roll? Maybe reduce it to a d3? Whatever happens right now when a crippled jack attacks something with Impervious Flesh (I have no idea).
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Post by galrohir on Oct 17, 2017 16:48:02 GMT
Well it had to be done. Old Incorporeal in this skirmish game would've just made it so you had two kinds of warbands: those with magic weapons, and incorporeal ones. Which doesn't make for a fun game.
As for crippled systems.....I wasn't able to find anything. I would assume it'd be 0 dice + STR + POW (which, on a warjack, should still be enough to deal damage to most infantry models). It's something to search for, particularly now that Piggybacks are a thing.
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Oct 18, 2017 6:20:20 GMT
Well it had to be done. Old Incorporeal in this skirmish game would've just made it so you had two kinds of warbands: those with magic weapons, and incorporeal ones. Which doesn't make for a fun game. As for crippled systems.....I wasn't able to find anything. I would assume it'd be 0 dice + STR + POW (which, on a warjack, should still be enough to deal damage to most infantry models). It's something to search for, particularly now that Piggybacks are a thing. As a proud hellmouth owner I've got rulling that you alway roll at least 1 dice. But mistakes happens and I haven't seen the source in rules.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Oct 18, 2017 7:09:13 GMT
Well it had to be done. Old Incorporeal in this skirmish game would've just made it so you had two kinds of warbands: those with magic weapons, and incorporeal ones. Which doesn't make for a fun game. As for crippled systems.....I wasn't able to find anything. I would assume it'd be 0 dice + STR + POW (which, on a warjack, should still be enough to deal damage to most infantry models). It's something to search for, particularly now that Piggybacks are a thing. As a proud hellmouth owner I've got rulling that you alway roll at least 1 dice. But mistakes happens and I haven't seen the source in rules. Where did you get this ruling? I see no reason why it should be anything more than 0 dice, except when boosting.
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Oct 18, 2017 9:33:19 GMT
Judge on local SR. I see no reason either but I also don't suspect he made it up. I will try to check rulebook today. Or maybe someone can ask on PP rules forum (it still exist )
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Post by galrohir on Oct 18, 2017 10:49:51 GMT
Well it had to be done. Old Incorporeal in this skirmish game would've just made it so you had two kinds of warbands: those with magic weapons, and incorporeal ones. Which doesn't make for a fun game. As for crippled systems.....I wasn't able to find anything. I would assume it'd be 0 dice + STR + POW (which, on a warjack, should still be enough to deal damage to most infantry models). It's something to search for, particularly now that Piggybacks are a thing. As a proud hellmouth owner I've got rulling that you alway roll at least 1 dice. But mistakes happens and I haven't seen the source in rules. I posted the question in the official PP forums and the consensus was that there is no minimum 1d6 rule. You roll no dice (unless you get extra dice from Weapon Master/Charge/Focus/etc) and just compare STR+POW or POW (for ranged) to ARM. But if a Judge ruled for you that it's a minimum 1d6, who knows, maybe he's right. The rulebooks don't support the minimum 1d6 theory though, although they only explicitly mention 0d6 attacks (which always miss).
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wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by wishing on Oct 18, 2017 12:12:24 GMT
A random ruling by a random judge obviously isn't official in any way, so as long as nobody on the PP forum states otherwise, the only thing we can conclude is that logically, 2D6 minus 1D6 minus 1D6 equals 0D6.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Oct 18, 2017 14:58:07 GMT
A random ruling by a random judge obviously isn't official in any way, so as long as nobody on the PP forum states otherwise, the only thing we can conclude is that logically, 2D6 minus 1D6 minus 1D6 equals 0D6. Well, there you go bringing facts and logic into this discussion!
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 18, 2017 15:17:16 GMT
Hypothetically speaking, what would happen if a crippled jack/beast decides to attack an incorporeal model without a magic weapon? Straight POW(+STR)? Or allow for a minimum 1d6 roll? Maybe reduce it to a d3? You would not roll any dice but assuming that most incorp models are low arm and most jacks are High P+S you would still be able to do damage as your P+S exceeds their arm. So a P+S16 jack hitting a arm 15 incorp model would still do 1 point of damage even if it had a crippled arm.
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martini
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
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Post by martini on Oct 18, 2017 18:13:07 GMT
I woud love to see this in the full game, also if all immunities worked the same way.
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Post by Cryptix on Oct 19, 2017 2:43:35 GMT
...Why do I have the sinking feeling that this is what people will be yelling at PP for during the SR18 CID.
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Post by borderprince on Oct 19, 2017 5:19:04 GMT
This, to me, seems like a pretty elegant toning down of Incorporeal and would be a good change to implement in the standard game to reduce the skew. Thoughts? Not required. Incorporeal is something you have to plan for in list building and should always have some answer for. I don't think there is any caster in the game who doesn't have a magic weapon or an offensive spell, so every list has a degree of an answer to it (not always a good answer, but that's a different issue). But in Company of Iron there are no casters, so dealing with incorporeal could be impossible unless builds were narrowed down to a small range. Also worth noting that this is how the IKRPG handled incorporeal before Mk3, so PP clearly knew about this possibility compared to the WM version and didn't implement it in the wargame. I think that suggests a change is unlikely. It's hardly likely mass incorporeal has been destroying the game - there are too many counters to it.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Oct 19, 2017 5:26:45 GMT
"Not required. Incorporeal is something you have to plan for in list building and should always have some answer for. I don't think there is any caster in the game who doesn't have a magic weapon or an offensive spell, so every list has a degree of an answer to it (not always a good answer, but that's a different issue). "
Issyria (if she ever loses all her 'jacks with magic weapons) is straight hosed if on her lonesome. Zaadesh2 I have more experience with, and his lack of a zap comes up fairly often in the new Gremlin Swarm meta. It changed list-building with him considerably.
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