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Post by oranjejus on Oct 16, 2017 3:54:50 GMT
While I have foreseen some issues, I have no solution other than keeping Xekaar well back until later in the game. e.g. there will be very little casting of Mortality until the endgame I expect. Delivery however I don't think will be a problem. It's a Dory list. Just keep stomping, stomping stomping stomping, just keep stomping... Oooooh a squishy! I like squishies!
2" from IWH, Rush on the whole front line first turn gets me to (theoretically) either the 19" or 22" line with the brickiest bits, and I probably will not be slowing down to avoid threat ranges. I should be able to get to some really obnoxious places (especially so if I get first turn) with the Sentries under feat and Aggies, where Bronzey and/or Tag-Glad can remove the stuff that tries to come in for the trade or bypass the sentries.
I have no idea how it's going to work out - traveling to a different city meta, and although the players are a bit more casual they're no scrubs. I haven't played Xekaar since the JML when he very first came out.
How bad can it be?
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psyllus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
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Post by psyllus on Oct 16, 2017 4:31:31 GMT
My solution to make Xekaar (more) survivable in a beast-brick is Brute + Orin. DEF 15 with no KD, no stationary, no spells, and multiple, overlapping shield guards lets Xekaar play close enough to make solid use of that Feat.
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Post by tasadarthemadbear on Oct 16, 2017 5:41:48 GMT
All I have used so far is Xekaar and he can be really hard to keep alive. Its too bad Marketh cant be used in IWH or DoA, but Brutes can (and probably should) be included in every Xekaar list. I dont have Orin, but there have been multiple times when I could have used him.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Oct 16, 2017 6:44:55 GMT
Xekaar begins and ends with the Blindwalker in DoA. I will never try to put him on the table again without an arc node, and if I'm going to play him, it will be with Basilisks. Tons of magical sprays and zaps, debuffs,and Primaled Krea-missiles. Looks fun...don't know about good. Xekaar is still the weak link. Maybe a Brute in there somewhere. This list is the pre-CID Blindwalker. After, there will be two more points to play with. conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0Hg24v4v4x4xjijkhG4C4C6wfF5U5V5SSkorne Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Disciples of Agony (Xekaar 1) Beast Master Xekaar [+31] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Battle Boar [7] - Blind Walker [12] - Chiron [19] - Cyclops Shaman [8] - Cyclops Shaman [8] Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [0(4)] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7] Paingiver Bloodrunners [9]
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didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on Oct 16, 2017 13:17:47 GMT
Drop a Krea and lower the max pgbh to a min to get in a Brute and upgrade a drake or a shaman to a Raider. Other than flank from drakes, there's not really a reason to have multiple krea's when you also have shaman's since they can copy the paralytic aura
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Oct 16, 2017 13:52:20 GMT
eh, I'd probably switch master tormentor with the task master and remove the bloodrunners and krea for a unit upgrade and possibly a solo if we are talking DoA. Once again though, this is a NEWBIE WITHOUT A LOT OF MONEY, who also cannot afford be a victim of theorimachine (an entire theoretical list that you donno if it's going to be good or not). He is also looking on how to most effectively run a TITAN brick. Throwing out a bunch of ideas that don't even include A titan doesn't make much sense.
I personally would be more worried about going first, tbh. When you go second, you can at least attempt to engage their ranged attackers. Since you can only trample if there is enough room for your base in the opposite end, it really hinders the stomping bit. A titan brick's worse enemy is a spam of small bases being backed up by medium and large based models (can't trample through them). It's the reason I prefer to take a cannoneer in my brick instead of a second sentry; anything to thin out the bases and let me focus on removing the larger based models and clear the zones. The reason other factions that do warjack/beast bricks can do it so well is because they can get AoE fire into their lists relatively easily.
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Post by drillbossd on Oct 16, 2017 16:12:55 GMT
I'm going to a 50pt tourney this coming weekend and single-listing it with the following IWH Titan brick: Xekaar1 - Bronzeback - Sentry - Sentry - Agonizer Zaadesh1 - Gladiator - Agonizer Max Beast Handlers Max Beast Handlers 2 agonizers mainly for the option of 4x repulse vectors, but also for wider brick options or fury games vs Hordes. Xekaar for psycho surgery and a 3rd enrage activation to allow more healing from the units. Gonna be fun. A million repulse vectors is nice, but if you have only a single list (i.e. no alternative to drop against a serious gunline), I'd get a Krea in there, probably on Zaadesh. That way you're likely to make it there with all your stuff.
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Post by tasadarthemadbear on Oct 16, 2017 19:02:50 GMT
Xekaar begins and ends with the Blindwalker in DoA. I will never try to put him on the table again without an arc node, and if I'm going to play him, it will be with Basilisks. Tons of magical sprays and zaps, debuffs,and Primaled Krea-missiles. Looks fun...don't know about good. Xekaar is still the weak link. Maybe a Brute in there somewhere. This list is the pre-CID Blindwalker. After, there will be two more points to play with. conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0Hg24v4v4x4xjijkhG4C4C6wfF5U5V5SSkorne Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Disciples of Agony (Xekaar 1) Beast Master Xekaar [+31] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Battle Boar [7] - Blind Walker [12] - Chiron [19] - Cyclops Shaman [8] - Cyclops Shaman [8] Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [0(4)] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7] Paingiver Bloodrunners [9] This list does look cool and close to what I would run if I was doing the spray spam, but as mentioned, I'm not a position to switch up the army that much. I do agree the Xekaar has some potential in DoA with a Blind Walker. I might end up getting one to add in to the Titan brick I am currently working with so I can keep using Xekaar. With the new casters I recently got (Morghoul1 and Zaadesh2), I dont see Xekaar getting much use until then.
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Post by oranjejus on Oct 16, 2017 21:01:34 GMT
A million repulse vectors is nice, but if you have only a single list (i.e. no alternative to drop against a serious gunline), I'd get a Krea in there, probably on Zaadesh. That way you're likely to make it there with all your stuff. Krea's not a Titan, so not an option Seriously tho: I'm experimenting with the repulse options that have game-winning utility, instead of reducing a little damage per shot with the Krea. I've played with a Krea dozens of times, I have never played with an Agonizer, so it's time for some fresh ideas. If I get the bad matchup of a straight gunline, I'll get creative in dealing with it - SR2017 terrain usually gives me enough options to keep it a game, and I'm so used to playing as the out-of-theme-underdog up until now (often against Cygnar,) I still feel comfortable running this experimental list into all comers. Just another hard slog at the gaming table awaits my Skorne This is my first time playing in theme. I have free points. It feels strange.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Oct 16, 2017 23:44:59 GMT
repulsion just gets better and better the larger your base is use it to clear zones and flags so you can score With how scenario points are used with tie breakers, it's actually very useful. I know a skorne player who swept victory and didn't even place just because his opponents couldn't handle his Xerxis2 list. He'd have the assassination in by turn 2 almost every game and ended the league (yeah, a full league) scoring only 8 total scenario points. He ended up in 4th, the person right above him having 10 scenario points x.x; It's one of the issues of having 33 league members, you can have a lot of people who sweep victory yet still don't place.
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Post by drillbossd on Oct 17, 2017 4:21:26 GMT
oranjejus , fair enough! Repulse is super fun with Morghoul1 due to his Mobility. Zaad can play more aggressively without being shot to death, so perhaps he'll use it well, too!
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Oct 17, 2017 4:46:49 GMT
the good thing about the Krea, actually, is the defensive boost. Starting at 10 def, it increases it to 12. With concealment or cover, it then brings titans up high enough that it forces your opponent to either combine range attack or boost ranged shots, increasing fury and focus use, while decreasing the number of possible shots at them. This drastically reduces your average ranged damage intake. On the other hand, the agonizer can reduce every str based attack by 2 damage, a much more useful utility when you are already in the pit. The repulsing ability being used by shamans, the aggy, and your caster can also have scenario winning consequences.
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Post by oranjejus on Oct 24, 2017 1:54:46 GMT
In case people were interested, I completed that small 4-round tourney 2 days ago. 3W 1L, didn't place thanks to strength of schedule. I lost to the eventual 1st place winner, and probably shouldn't have won my first game. Everyone was playing in theme, I don't know what the themes were called as I don't normally record non-75 point games carefully.
The Xekaar Titans:
Game 1 vs Kromac2 (Circle). My round 1 opponent forgot the tournament was on, and didn't arrive in time for round start. As arranged with TO via text message he said to start his clock while he was still on his way, so he began deployment with 27min and I had 42. I won on clock, after mis-timing my feat turn and losing most of my brick on turn 3.
Game 2 vs Fiona (Mercs). His turn 1: "Sac Pawn on Zaadesh only works on ranged attacks right, not magic ones?" My response: "Ahhh shit. I mean, no. Why?" A long 'ooooh' proceeds to be uttered as terrible, terrible things happen over his 3 turns. Lose on scenario, Xekaar and 2 boxes on an Agonizer remain. He killed more points than I paid for - cue confused TO chasing me down about our scoring for the round. NB: Freebooters can kill Bronzebacks and Sentries under Aggy bubbles one a piece in a single round.
Game 3 vs Doomshaper2 (Trolls). The beefy beat-down. Opponent spent a long time setting up clear and perfect threat lines with his stupidly fast feat-able trolls: Mulg, an Earthborn standing in water, and a Mauler, with an Axer waiting in the wings. I flustered him by putting everything well within his normal threat of each beast, lost both Sentries to Mulg and Mauler, Counter Charged Bronzey out of Earthborn's range, and in reprisal Bronzey killed Mulg and left Mauler on 1 box, Glad killed Earthborn. Now under feat, he ran out of time trying to hit an effective Def 18 Xekaar with his Mauler.
Game 4 vs Barnabas (Minions). My best deployment and unpacking (hey, I'd just had 3 practice runs...) and this led to my opponent thinking he had to deny me the alpha, so went in with his own. Completely messed up however, and 2 Wrastlers left 1 Sentry on 8 boxes. I killed all the things in a reverse situation of game 2, eventually leading to an assassination with the Bronzey smooshing Barnabas who had no transfer targets available.
Thoughts: I was terrified when I saw the TO had decided that SR2016 terrain quantity and layout was a good idea for some tables. (Spoiler, it makes for really un-enjoyable gaming having the middle of the table empty of... anything.) At least they weren't all like that, but game plan of "play around the guns" was not even an option in game 2 (even if I'd known about the infantry arc-node.)
Xekaar did almost nothing except cast Psycho Surgery and Enrage, although one game he got to cast Repulse. Oh, I did have a Best Handler in the way of an Agonizer's path, so Xekaar swung. And missed. In the back arc. Twice. Had to buy an attack. There were a lot of lols. NB: Speed 7 caster with repulse = brilliant when you need it in a clutch. If he had reposition it would = perfect. But really, I could have done that tourney with any other caster and got more actual work out of them.
The list was bad. Yes, it's a 3-1 result, and yes, 2 of those I 'earnt' the wins, but it's because I outplayed my opponents, not because my list actually did much of anything. Well, other than heal. The one time I was left with the not-dead Sentry, I got it from 8 boxes back to 30 in 2 turns. That's what the 2xMax Handlers were for, and I'm now certain it's just not useful tech at the speed the game is played at. At least, not on beasts in melee. I would think it has value on a gargantuan getting shot a lot however.
All said tho, I'm glad I took it and performed the live experiment. There were gems in the rough of the day, and much laughter at some of the comedy elements playing out on the dice. It was intriguing watching people agonize (pun intended) over what to play into it while I just got my tokens ready, and unpacked my tray. If anything, I think it's fair to say people find 2xSentries with effective +5 ARM intimidating, and caused their coniptions in list choice. Well, except for the Mercs. No hesitation there.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Oct 24, 2017 2:30:56 GMT
yeah, big issue with facing against a brick is if you don't have the bodies to stop it you're going to get crunched. The most effective counter when I run my brick was a convergence spamming little bodied people while placing medium sized bases behind them. He won on scenario on the 5th turn x.O; Tibs kept the model count low but not having a thresher really hurt in that game. I've been redesigning to try and fit the rhinodon in there somehow ever since, just can find an effective trade yet.
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Post by killroundears on Oct 24, 2017 2:53:36 GMT
Yeah i generally believe zaadesh2 is the king of defensive bricks (notably defensive strike on models with a knockdown like turtle are amazing) and his clouds and countercharges.
Xerxis2 seems to be king of the offensive brick due to FM, offensive feat, damage buff and mat buff. Shame x2 cant play in doa thatd be hilarious
I wouldnt really ever run xekaar when morg2 exists though. Morg2 can even survive standing in relatively aggressive spots due to steady stealth.
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