Post by twity on Sept 23, 2017 21:28:08 GMT
I want to have a discussion on traditional list pairing theory. This is stemming from the recent success I have had with a very fast Fyanna Ravens list, and what I want to pair with it.
In the past I think most list pairings in Legion I have created generally are designed to counter specific threats, while other factions will project specific threats. At its most basic this would boil down to a list that deals with armor, and a list that deals with infantry. This can be a little more personalized based on common skew lists (ie ghost fleet) or variants (cygnar gun line) that is attuned to a specific meta (either local or national). I do not like this because it can leave glaring holes in our pairings, and can lead to unlucky very unfavorable matchups and list chicken. I do not think this dynamic applies to team tournaments (for those of you thinking about the WTC right now) because the format allows for the strong counter used or avoided.
Steamroller 2017 is very live on scenario, and offers us a chance to project specific threats. I currently am thinking about a dynamic involving a fast list, and a control list. When I say control I do not mean it in the Denny1 sense, but instead a caster like Vayl2. My version of control with Legion is having threats that reduce your opponents available moves. For instance, Vayl2 projects a very powerful assassination and limits the ability of the enemy caster to move into the open or not camp focus/fury. Vayl2 also has boundless charge, which lets you exercise a greater area of control and limit your opponents move. I would throw Hex Hunters with Bayal into this catagory, as often shadowbind can be just as powerful in limiting enemy movement. I think the Twins also fall nicely into this Niche. Against a good opponent who sees this coming, the goal of the control list is to force your opponent to move into an unfavorable position simply to avoid losing on scenario.
The speed list would be one that move so quickly it keeps your opponent out of scenario entirely. If your opponent doesn't see this coming a slow brick can lose when it hits this table. They other key aspect of the speed list is avoiding complete destruction following the jam. For this I think Fyanna will reign supreme, but there are a few other great options. The Fyanna version should move past the scenario zones and tie up their army. This would involve feating before engagement vs the gunline, or after engagement vs more melee heavy lists. If you engage far enough on their side of the table you can win on scenario or force very unfavorable moves from them in an attempt to stay live on scenario. A powerful defensive feat is a huge plus for this tactic, but an offensive one can work as well. I think Vayl1 and Abby2 fit this niche very well.
So in a tournament I might pair Vayl2 with a classic oracles list with Fyanna running a fast Ravens list. If I see two slow menoth lists I could drop Fyanna, or if I see Cygnar with eHaley and lots of electroleap I can drop eVayl.
I can also think of a few other threats legion could deploy (the gunline, the brick) that might force moves from an opponent but don't really fit my playstyle.
Thoughts? Can you design based more around threats then responses and reliably win a tournament? What might be potent threat combos you could deploy (pThagrosh/eLylyth)?
In the past I think most list pairings in Legion I have created generally are designed to counter specific threats, while other factions will project specific threats. At its most basic this would boil down to a list that deals with armor, and a list that deals with infantry. This can be a little more personalized based on common skew lists (ie ghost fleet) or variants (cygnar gun line) that is attuned to a specific meta (either local or national). I do not like this because it can leave glaring holes in our pairings, and can lead to unlucky very unfavorable matchups and list chicken. I do not think this dynamic applies to team tournaments (for those of you thinking about the WTC right now) because the format allows for the strong counter used or avoided.
Steamroller 2017 is very live on scenario, and offers us a chance to project specific threats. I currently am thinking about a dynamic involving a fast list, and a control list. When I say control I do not mean it in the Denny1 sense, but instead a caster like Vayl2. My version of control with Legion is having threats that reduce your opponents available moves. For instance, Vayl2 projects a very powerful assassination and limits the ability of the enemy caster to move into the open or not camp focus/fury. Vayl2 also has boundless charge, which lets you exercise a greater area of control and limit your opponents move. I would throw Hex Hunters with Bayal into this catagory, as often shadowbind can be just as powerful in limiting enemy movement. I think the Twins also fall nicely into this Niche. Against a good opponent who sees this coming, the goal of the control list is to force your opponent to move into an unfavorable position simply to avoid losing on scenario.
The speed list would be one that move so quickly it keeps your opponent out of scenario entirely. If your opponent doesn't see this coming a slow brick can lose when it hits this table. They other key aspect of the speed list is avoiding complete destruction following the jam. For this I think Fyanna will reign supreme, but there are a few other great options. The Fyanna version should move past the scenario zones and tie up their army. This would involve feating before engagement vs the gunline, or after engagement vs more melee heavy lists. If you engage far enough on their side of the table you can win on scenario or force very unfavorable moves from them in an attempt to stay live on scenario. A powerful defensive feat is a huge plus for this tactic, but an offensive one can work as well. I think Vayl1 and Abby2 fit this niche very well.
So in a tournament I might pair Vayl2 with a classic oracles list with Fyanna running a fast Ravens list. If I see two slow menoth lists I could drop Fyanna, or if I see Cygnar with eHaley and lots of electroleap I can drop eVayl.
I can also think of a few other threats legion could deploy (the gunline, the brick) that might force moves from an opponent but don't really fit my playstyle.
Thoughts? Can you design based more around threats then responses and reliably win a tournament? What might be potent threat combos you could deploy (pThagrosh/eLylyth)?
