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Post by albertairish on Sept 22, 2017 15:26:44 GMT
Hi all. I'm in search of rock-solid Trollblood tournament pairings. Pairings that have proven themselves to be Steamroller winners and able to take on and be at least 50/50 with the power lists of Ghost Fleet, Dark Host, Vlad Rockets, Khador Jack Spam, Cygnar Nemo3 gunlines, eHaley, Legion Oracles, and the like.
If you have such a pairing and would like to share it, I'd love to see it. If you feel like talking a bit about what works against what, all the better.
Let's see the best that Trollbloods can be in the current tournament environment.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 22, 2017 18:05:35 GMT
I'll let gdnerd speak to what has pretty much become the definitive build for Doomy 2 and Trollock to the Grissel 2 list that he developed with Chris Dancocks, which I do think is still good even in SR17. For my own part, I'm not so sure about a pairing. I've tinkered with various ideas but not gotten very far. I'm still thinking in terms of building the best first list possible then a second one specifically to cover its weaknesses.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 23, 2017 21:20:18 GMT
It looks like Doomy 3 did pretty well today.
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Post by albertairish on Sept 23, 2017 23:31:34 GMT
From a quick glance he excelled against offensive casters (Sloan, eStryker, Nemo3). Didn't fare as well against control casters (eHaley, Wurmwood). Tons of Cygnar matchups, but I guess that's not that weird considering they were the 2nd most popular faction.
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Post by Trollock on Sept 24, 2017 6:10:29 GMT
Vlad rockets + Harhevitch jackspam will probably always put you in list chicken. not easy to find one list that covers both well. new Madrak 1 with champs and warders might do it though...
As for the cryx match up, that is the one that genuinely worries me. Ghost fleet is so damned powerful that it pretty much needs a dedicated drop, and if you bring that drop, you will have to play against coven with banes instead. The obvious solution to GF is to RFP leader models, and the Gunny is your only chance. He is not good against banes he cant see though. Grim 1 (post CID at least) is probably a decent middle ground. If you threaten things from far away, coven will have to feat defensively, and then you can respond by feating too. and sort of wait a round. I honestly have no real idea how to solve this on paper. On the table though, you sort of have to play better than your opponent anyway to win, and you always have an out.
My guess is that Doomy 3 / Grim 1 is a good pairing. The "perfect" pairing probably does not exist.
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Post by allinontrolls on Sept 24, 2017 20:38:48 GMT
I See alot of reasons for picking doomy3 and with cid changes he will be even stonger (mulg+runebearer) but why do you pair him with grim1?
If it's about shooting vs cryx I believe gunny will be better(explosivo + boosted range attacks) but for a good all corner (also dark host) you should pick a band of heroes caster.
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Post by Trollock on Sept 25, 2017 7:11:14 GMT
I See alot of reasons for picking doomy3 and with cid changes he will be even stonger (mulg+runebearer) but why do you pair him with grim1? If it's about shooting vs cryx I believe gunny will be better(explosivo + boosted range attacks) but for a good all corner (also dark host) you should pick a band of heroes caster. Yeah, it may very well be that Madrak 1 (the new one) in BoH is the thing to use against cryx.
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Post by allinontrolls on Sept 25, 2017 18:30:35 GMT
I am not sure if we need a sorcerer or not to deal with incorp or if stone is enough.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Sept 25, 2017 20:41:57 GMT
I've been working on Doom2/Gunny since LnL. Poor showing at LnL (hadn't played a single game of gunny before that weekend), then improved a fair bit at Phoenix (went 2-0 with him but decided to dump him for Grim in the finals as there was no Cryx/Cygnar). Then at the last 3 local events I've gone undefeated with the pair playing >50% Gunny. He's really obnoxious for Grymkin which are quite popular locally, he also forces Cryx out of Ghost Fleet and Cygnar out of their Caine3/Sloan lists. If you see something super brick-y you just play Doom2, hit first and just try to not die until your heavies clean everything up. Unless CID buffs drop in the next ~1.5 weeks I'll be taking my pair un-altered to Crucible. If they do come out I'll seriously consider swapping Gunny for nuGrim or nuMadrak, but it TBH depends on how many reps I can get in between now and then.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 25, 2017 23:48:58 GMT
I am not sure if we need a sorcerer or not to deal with incorp or if stone is enough. I would not go very far out of my way, but if I did have 3 points left over I would add a Sorcerer to Fenns if I have them, just in case they face off against Blackbane- they are far more likely to leave the Protective Aura. A Sorcerer is not wasted on the Champs by any means, though, as +5 HP will help with Sanguine Bond, and the Sorcerer could give them magic weapons while the stone gives them +1 STR to make sure they kill the Wraith Engine. That's the plan anyway, but lastly, this is the kind of case in which a little redundancy can be a good thing. If nothing else, Denny is more than capable to scalpel out the stone.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 25, 2017 23:55:37 GMT
I've been working on Doom2/Gunny since LnL. Poor showing at LnL (hadn't played a single game of gunny before that weekend), then improved a fair bit at Phoenix (went 2-0 with him but decided to dump him for Grim in the finals as there was no Cryx/Cygnar). Then at the last 3 local events I've gone undefeated with the pair playing >50% Gunny. He's really obnoxious for Grymkin which are quite popular locally, he also forces Cryx out of Ghost Fleet and Cygnar out of their Caine3/Sloan lists. If you see something super brick-y you just play Doom2, hit first and just try to not die until your heavies clean everything up. Unless CID buffs drop in the next ~1.5 weeks I'll be taking my pair un-altered to Crucible. If they do come out I'll seriously consider swapping Gunny for nuGrim or nuMadrak, but it TBH depends on how many reps I can get in between now and then. What's the Gunny list again? I can never remember these things.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Sept 26, 2017 0:05:12 GMT
Gunny -Mk -Bomber -D+S -Axer Janyssa Shaman Shaman Whelps Min Stone + UA Knot
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Post by grimgor on Sept 27, 2017 11:17:59 GMT
In this kind of list don't u think a bomber is juste better than D&S ? His animus don't seems to be really usefull as guided fire is already helping to hit. His armor 19 and his shoot range are his best things, but a second shoot is maybe just better than all of this. But i never played him, what are yur mind about this ? Did you have good experiences of playing with him ?
A glacier king is certainly a really good thing for gunny, are you considering him ?
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Post by Trollock on Sept 27, 2017 11:42:54 GMT
In this kind of list don't u think a bomber is juste better than D&S ? His animus don't seems to be really usefull as guided fire is already helping to hit. His armor 19 and his shoot range are his best things, but a second shoot is maybe just better than all of this. But i never played him, what are yur mind about this ? Did you have good experiences of playing with him ? A glacier king is certainly a really good thing for gunny, are you considering him ? About D&S with Gunny... I too was a doubter but then i played it a bunch and it DOES have great value over going double bomber. When it comes to just shooting down a heavy at range, yes a bomber will do better, but D&S can actually often get off two shots anyway (with kill shot) and he does so much more cool stuff. Things like scattering balsts in to the opponents deployment on turn 1 are fun, but not super reliable. It is not as unreliable as one might think though thanks to the animus. Speaking about the animus. it can be put on a bomber to make him RAT 7. combining that with Guided Fire and the Snipe upkeep, and you have a model that does two fully boosted RNG 12 RAT 7 POW 16 attacks each turn. That is an INCREDIBLE gun platform. Compare it to a Defender, who does one RNG 14, RAT 6 POW 15 each turn. A bomber under Gunny is basically worth two Defenders (though the Bomber shoots 2" shorter, but has 4" AoE to compensate). It is absolutely amazing. Boosted RAT 7s hit most things, even casters need to be really careful around that thing.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Sept 27, 2017 18:35:56 GMT
Basically everything Trollock says is 100% in line with how I feel. I don't typically snipe or lucky shot the bomber but I've done it a couple times.
As per the Glacier versus Mountain King consideration, I think post-buff the Glacier King is definitely a valid option. I'll probably stick to the Mountain King because it makes you less dead to stealth/cloud walls (even with Krielstone), is a far superior target for Explosivo, and gives you a serious damage buff for the more armor-heavy matchups, but if you want to go full gunline assassination the GK will get the job done better.
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