npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Mar 28, 2017 13:59:48 GMT
I don't really think it's an oversimplification at all considering everything you just said reinforces my statement. Everything you've mentioned about Jack tactics all fits exactly what I said, you play Agathia for her feat. "You can fuel more jacks because you have a worse spell list" sounds like Budget Deneghra to me. Deneghra can choose to not cast spells and fuel jacks too. Agathia's feat is what differentiates her from Deneghra, if you're not building your list to take advantage of Shadowfall, just play Deneghra1 instead. How do you build a list to take advantage of Shadowfall though? I don't think Stealth is a strong enough ability to warrant building a whole list to capitalise on it. But then again, my meta is Cygnar heavy... Maybe build a ranged warjack list that shoots and move 3" to get out of charge range on feat turn? Shadowfall really shines in spam lists/flying. The ability to spam ghostly (I view stealth as a minor benefit) is the real kicker. Units that really want ghostly (like scrap thralls) really benefit from it.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 28, 2017 16:27:14 GMT
I don't really think it's an oversimplification at all considering everything you just said reinforces my statement. Everything you've mentioned about Jack tactics all fits exactly what I said, you play Agathia for her feat. "You can fuel more jacks because you have a worse spell list" sounds like Budget Deneghra to me. Deneghra can choose to not cast spells and fuel jacks too. Agathia's feat is what differentiates her from Deneghra, if you're not building your list to take advantage of Shadowfall, just play Deneghra1 instead. How do you build a list to take advantage of Shadowfall though? I don't think Stealth is a strong enough ability to warrant building a whole list to capitalise on it. But then again, my meta is Cygnar heavy... Maybe build a ranged warjack list that shoots and move 3" to get out of charge range on feat turn? When I was playing Agathia I built her specifically to answer prenerf Ossyan since he was huge in my meta & Stealth was something he struggled with. The other major component of the feat is the mass ghostly which allows you to position yourself behind cover & forests on the approach and not worry about them hampering your threat ranges. While casters like the Coven and Deneghra have Ghost Walk as well they can't hand out mass Ghostly the way Agathia can. For these reasons with Agathia I prefer to bring units that I can stack resistances with. Units like Satyxis Raiders & Blackbane's Ghost Raiders are sweet with her. It's a lot harder to answer Raiders when they're def 16, Stealth, and Blast immune or Blackbanes with Incorporeal + Stealth. Sure your opponent might have an answer for one of those things, but can they answer all of it? Cygnar can clear out the Raiders easily, but Stealthed Blackbanes tend to cause them more issues as most of Cygnars True Sight are on high value attacks & not on Infantry clearing, and Electro Leaps don't hurt Incorporeal. The other great use for Shadowfall is going npe's route and bringing a bunch of units that are super fast and can go through models like Blackbane's & Carrion Thralls, but would typically incur free strikes while doing so. With Shadowfall giving them all Ghostly they can walk/run into back arcs no problem and cause massive order of activation nightmares for your opponent or cause a bunch of his army to turn around in order to deal with enemies within his ranks. Shadowfall has a surprising number of practical applications due to it's odd nature in that it's almost like having 3 separate mini feats. I personally focus on the Ghostly/Stealth portions of Shadowfall when building Agathia lists, but I'm sure there's also lists out there that use the 3" teleport to great effect. I just personally haven't tried exploring it.
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Mar 28, 2017 23:03:01 GMT
Units like Satyxis Raiders & Blackbane's Ghost Raiders are sweet with her. It's a lot harder to answer Raiders when they're def 16, Stealth, and Blast immune or Blackbanes with Incorporeal + Stealth. Sure your opponent might have an answer for one of those things, but can they answer all of it? Cygnar can clear out the Raiders easily, but Stealthed Blackbanes tend to cause them more issues as most of Cygnars True Sight are on high value attacks & not on Infantry clearing, and Electro Leaps don't hurt Incorporeal. This. Stacking questions for opponents to answer is usually pretty good at putting your list in the driver's seat. Agathia is very good at this. I've used it a bit. If you're using it defensively it's great because your jacks get 15" ghostly to get up the board and into cover. It's useful, but unobviously so.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 29, 2017 8:40:19 GMT
Now I'm starting to feel like trying out a list something like this:
Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points
(Agathia 1) Bane Witch Agathia [+29] - Deathjack [23] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] - The Withershadow Combine [9] Bane Lord Tartarus [8] Machine Wraith [2] Machine Wraith [2] Machine Wraith [2] Blackbane's Ghost Raiders (max) [17] Carrion Thralls (max) [10] Satyxis Raiders (max) [16] - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch [3]
Tartarus is basically a second source of Dark Shroud, does ok at wrecking lights and puts Agathia's to-hit stat at scary 9 level. Deathjack with Hellwrought seems cool, though I could see me swapping him out for double Inflictors to keep our fragile Bane Witch safer. With the focus efficiency from WSC and only a single heavy, she should be able to put out a Parasite every turn and still camp a few. The rest is basically just incorporating the above advice. It seems like a pretty decent skew that is good at crossing the board quickly and giving your opponent all sorts of headaches.
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Mar 29, 2017 19:35:55 GMT
Now I'm starting to feel like trying out a list something like this: Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points (Agathia 1) Bane Witch Agathia [+29] - Deathjack [23] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] - The Withershadow Combine [9] Bane Lord Tartarus [8] Machine Wraith [2] Machine Wraith [2] Machine Wraith [2] Blackbane's Ghost Raiders (max) [17] Carrion Thralls (max) [10] Satyxis Raiders (max) [16] - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch [3] Tartarus is basically a second source of Dark Shroud, does ok at wrecking lights and puts Agathia's to-hit stat at scary 9 level. Deathjack with Hellwrought seems cool, though I could see me swapping him out for double Inflictors to keep our fragile Bane Witch safer. With the focus efficiency from WSC and only a single heavy, she should be able to put out a Parasite every turn and still camp a few. The rest is basically just incorporating the above advice. It seems like a pretty decent skew that is good at crossing the board quickly and giving your opponent all sorts of headaches. Go for it. The more Aggie the better.
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Mar 30, 2017 22:16:49 GMT
Now I'm starting to feel like trying out a list something like this: Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points (Agathia 1) Bane Witch Agathia [+29] ... Bane Lord Tartarus [8] One thing I just remembered, it might be worth experimenting with swapping Tartarus for a Satyxis Captain or two. Mat 8, Spd 7 ghostly and autoknockdown on 2 mat 8 attacks, one of which has reach and then a 3" reposition out of the way, can set up some pretty awesome assassination vectors. Agathia and Carrion thralls especially benefit from this.
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Post by Tekanan on Mar 31, 2017 0:37:34 GMT
Now I'm starting to feel like trying out a list something like this: Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points (Agathia 1) Bane Witch Agathia [+29] ... Bane Lord Tartarus [8] One thing I just remembered, it might be worth experimenting with swapping Tartarus for a Satyxis Captain or two. Mat 8, Spd 7 ghostly and autoknockdown on 2 mat 8 attacks, one of which has reach and then a 3" reposition out of the way, can set up some pretty awesome assassination vectors. Agathia and Carrion thralls especially benefit from this. Sounds good! I figured that I would want to play some pistol wraiths too and this puts icing on the cake!
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Post by gobber on Mar 31, 2017 2:38:51 GMT
I feel like the logical conclusion of this discussion would be agathia+necrotech+warwitch+14 scavengers. Has anyone tried that sort of thing?
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Post by tiberius on Mar 31, 2017 10:51:13 GMT
That sounds like a better line up with mortenebra 2, that or stalker spam.
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Mar 31, 2017 15:21:41 GMT
I feel like the logical conclusion of this discussion would be agathia+necrotech+warwitch+14 scavengers. Has anyone tried that sort of thing? I have a version of my "Scavengers of the Line" list that is similar (stalkers instead of scavengers though).
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Post by Solaire of Astora on Apr 3, 2017 0:33:08 GMT
I've had success with her and her feat with a Bane heavy list against Khador. I guess it helps that Bane Warriors and Witch Agatha isn't part of the meta. So think It would be better when you catch you opponent of guard, as it is with all lists.
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