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Post by elladan52 on Sept 21, 2017 13:44:55 GMT
Plus you don't need to kill the enemy models with enemy models to rfp them. If you can catch a couple leader models in the feat and shoot them it still works.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 21, 2017 14:35:55 GMT
That's both true. What I still don't like is that you have one turn to make it count, which can screw your plans. And no defense against the assassination, which Hexy2 has. I think I'll go for this in the near future: conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0I6Q6S4C4CcPcP6u6u6u6v6v6H5Rft5Rft5RftSkorne Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] The Exalted (Pre-Release) (Hexeris 2) Lord Arbiter Hexeris [+27] - Cyclops Raider [9] - Cyclops Shaman [8] - Cyclops Shaman [8] - Reptile Hound [4] - Reptile Hound [4] Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Ancestral Guardian [5] Extoller Soulward [3] Extoller Soulward [3] Hakaar the Destroyer [0(7)] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4]
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didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on Sept 21, 2017 17:02:39 GMT
Scourge is a significant part of Denny1 ghost fleet's assassination game. She can still knock down Hexeris even if he spell warded himself with either a sacrificial model or bad placement on your part. It still helps that he can't get parasite or crippling grasped, but in this list Hexeris is still able to be assassinated. Not to mention stalkers, which there's not much anyone can do about. A brute would solve that with his animus making hexeris unable to be knocked down, and shield guard works pretty well against the CRA ghost shots. I would give up a shaman for a brute.
Also, threatening Denny1 to keep her honest is another thing that's important in the match up. By going with double reptile hounds instead of a razor wurm, you lose the capability for Hexeris to get eyeless sight from a soulward, and then arc through the eyeless sighted razor wurm to hellfire denny1. You do have an extra extoller so you could still do so, but it's be a significant investment when stealth tech is so premium in the match up.
I'd like to switch the raider for a cannoneer. this list has even more issues than Zaal2 at cracking armor. Might not be able to fit it though. Could take out an advocate and a guardian for it maybe.
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Sept 21, 2017 17:32:16 GMT
you lose the capability for Hexeris to get eyeless sight from a soulward, and then arc through the eyeless sighted razor wurm to hellfire denny1. I have only begun to play against ghost fleet can you explain why you need the arc node to have eyeless? Are there clouds in the list someplace?
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didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on Sept 21, 2017 17:46:58 GMT
Denny1 herself has native stealth. Also, Stalkers, which are a very significant threat with denny1, have stealth. In order for hexy1 to channel a spell and not auto miss due to stealth, both the channeling model and hexeris himself have to have eyeless sight. Razor Wurm's have native eyeless sight, and so switching the hounds to a razor wurm will free up a soulward for other things.
In addition, blackbanes and the wraith engine have incorporeal. Not the same thing as stealth, but since it's still what the soulward hands out, be mindful of t. All together, it stretches soulwards quite thin.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 21, 2017 17:49:28 GMT
Denny can knock him down. But even on her Feat the rifles still roll dice off 3. She has to get a lot of them on him to make it worth it. Stalkers are a pain, but one you can calculate.
To spell at Denny it only takes Eyeless Sight on the Caster, as he is the one making the attack roll. If I need to see through Clouds I can always grant it to the 'node with the other Soulward. Of course all of that is unnecessary if a Hound makes it to within 5" of her. In that case both shamans can contribute.
I'm not worried about armor cracking at all. This is a Cryx drop and I don't want to dilude it. I haven't had a problem cracking armor in a long time anyway. Funline and Cats both do it effortlessly.
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Sept 21, 2017 17:50:30 GMT
Denny1 herself has native stealth. In order for hexy1 to channel a spell and not auto miss due to stealth, both the channeling model and hexeris himself have to have eyeless sight. That isn't how the rule works. The arc node needs to be able to see (i.e. have LOS to) the model the caster needs to be able to hit it. Stealth does nothing to LOS so the arc node does not need eyeless sight unless she is hiding behind a cloud or fog or something like that. Stealth does say if the ranged or spell aattack is from more than 5" away (this would be the distance from the arc node to the target in the arcing case) it auto misses. Because your caster is attacking the model they would need eyeless sight to ignore this auto miss case
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 21, 2017 18:25:17 GMT
Are you dealing with double bane riders? Because I always see a single unit of them. The scathers are not for them, but the small based banes.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 21, 2017 19:43:25 GMT
Oh I'm not worried about Incorporeal with 30 Immortals around. Oh, Rifles are dice off 4, not 3, that's even less horrible.
Double Riders seems slightly more popular than double Warriors around here, though both are played.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 21, 2017 21:13:59 GMT
Oh I'm not worried about Incorporeal with 30 Immortals around. Oh, Rifles are dice off 4, not 3, that's even less horrible. Double Riders seems slightly more popular than double Warriors around here, though both are played. I never see double riders. It's always single unit of riders and double banes or sometimes banes + knights.
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st4inless
Baby's First Wargame
People been Skorning around here for Decades.
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Post by st4inless on Sept 26, 2017 18:41:12 GMT
Interesting discussion. Just came back from WTC with a 0:3 vs cryx, with a Hexy2 List specifically designed to beat cryx. Sadly it could not handle Coven Double Riders, which I had never had to face before. I feel that the second unit creates a whole new level of issues for Winds, where we simply lack the melee potential to deal with it without losing on scenario. I saw other players being able to keep up thanks to Rasheth, but it always seemed to be an uphill battle. I hope our new Themes alleviate the issue.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 26, 2017 20:59:57 GMT
Interesting discussion. Just came back from WTC with a 0:3 vs cryx, with a Hexy2 List specifically designed to beat cryx. Sadly it could not handle Coven Double Riders, which I had never had to face before. I feel that the second unit creates a whole new level of issues for Winds, where we simply lack the melee potential to deal with it without losing on scenario. I saw other players being able to keep up thanks to Rasheth, but it always seemed to be an uphill battle. I hope our new Themes alleviate the issue. I feel like the answer to this is a Praetorian theme, but we have no idea what that will look like. We can shoot down bane riders with an arm debuff with derp turtles, but we cannot overcome that feat without giving up scenario. How about Makeda2 Catswarm? Attacks are limited so should do ok.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 27, 2017 7:17:51 GMT
Cats would work into Host (VERY starting-roll dependent), but lose to Fleet. I hope for Take Down in the Pretorean theme, then we'd stand a chance into Cryx.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 27, 2017 11:05:23 GMT
Cats would work into Host (VERY starting-roll dependent), but lose to Fleet. I hope for Take Down in the Pretorean theme, then we'd stand a chance into Cryx. I don't think we need Take Down (though it certainly helps). Just an in theme way to play Swordsmen should dig deep enough to really denude their units. Or Keltarri. Or even Karax to flood the place with bodies.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 27, 2017 11:28:06 GMT
I don't think that's viable. There are three gear checks to Ghost Fleet (magical weapons, countermagic, RfP) and not passing any of them is extremely bad news. More dudes will not solve that issue.
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