|
Post by moberg on Mar 25, 2017 8:03:50 GMT
My first Skorne Gargantuan is on its way, the awesome Desert Hydra.
I'm generally thinking of teaming it up with casters that can increase its survivability. Casters that increase def/arm like X1, Z1 or Naaresh seem good. Casters that can heal it well like Hex2 seems good as well, and Hex2 can do some nice tricks with black spot as well.
What have you found out when playing around with the Hydra? Which casters do you think it works well together with and have you found any particular units or solos that you like to run it with? How much support is generally needed? is it too much with both an Agonizer and a Krea, or is that the way to go?
Any input is welcome.
|
|
|
Post by fragpalm on Mar 25, 2017 13:09:41 GMT
Though I haven't seen this done much, I run it successfully with Makeda1.
Telling the opponent my garg can threat 14" on a charge always puts them in an awkward spot. But mostly, I use it as a Jackhammer tool. Its huge base makes it more accessible to the spell (6"), but it also does amazingly at clearing jam ahead of the Hydra's activation. Just this week my opponent placed a light jack in front of it to hamper its movement, denying a lane to his caster, but with just 4 Jackhammers my 38 point investement was free to do as it wished.
There's always the other side to Jackhammer: 15 attacks at p+s20 (Enrage) into anything in the game kills it (Snacking and crit Grievous Wounds to boot). Mostly it's excellent at obliterating a caster or making sure you wipe out two heavies in one turn.
|
|
demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
|
Post by demonic on Mar 25, 2017 18:18:47 GMT
to be honest, Krea OR Aggy would be better than both, depending on your opponent's list. What you have to be careful with, with the Hydra is not being engaged first. The Hydra is rather frail because of it's craptacular defense; a single heavy from just about any army can box it in 1 turn with decent rolls. On the other hand, if you deny the charge, it can generally make through that first assault and hyper regen + snack its way to a decent amount of health before they get another chance. Add in some beasthandler medicates and his ability to bounce back becomes pure nastiness. Mak 1 and Jackhammer with him works really well and the option of 5, 6 inch sprays when you are facing a spam list is gorgeous. My favorite thing about him is placing him near 1 edge of the board, the Cyclops shaman on the other side, and my caster in the center, then using sandstorm with all 3 makes Cygnar gunline lists cry.
|
|
|
Post by moberg on Mar 25, 2017 22:49:42 GMT
Thanks for the input guys. I can definitely see how the Hydra can shine with Makeda1. It seems to be a very versatile beast, which is great in my eyes. I can't help but feel that it's low MAT will be a bit of a downer, so casters that can help it out there should be great as well.
|
|
|
Post by fragpalm on Mar 26, 2017 12:40:20 GMT
People are going to start calling me a Xerxis2 fanboy around here, but he fixes your mat issues with Rapport. He also runs the Hydra exceptionally well, again with the huge 14" threat (Rush and Field Marshal) and an alpha potential on feat turn that will make your opponent tear up. Even its rat6 is buffed on feat turn (made into rat8ish).
Its base Mat6 isn't terrible against the average heavy, though. If you're facing Legion or Circle, boosting to hit on most of your 5 initials will guarantee the beast's death, probably with fury to spare.
As for support, I happen to run very little with Makeda1 for the hydra specifically. I find her jamming game absurdly effective, which allows me to set up a powerful screen for delivery.
A friend turned me on to the Shaman and a Krea to support my Xerxis2 Hydra. Shooting armies dislike having their gun range lowered on top of an arm21 garg. I happen to run two Sentries in that list, so Shield Guard is also happening, but it's probably not necessary considering you can heal up your Hydra pretty easily if it got hurt on the way in.
I agree with Demonic in that the Hydra is in no way a hardy model, considering its point cost. Deflecting shooting is one thing, but if it's attacked in melee by any significant threat it's probably going down. My best approach so far against this weakness has been enormous threat ranges, making sure my alpha hits hard and true, wiping out the things that hunt it before they get their chance to pounce.
|
|
|
Post by scorp on Mar 27, 2017 5:35:38 GMT
to be honest, Krea OR Aggy would be better than both, depending on your opponent's list. What you have to be careful with, with the Hydra is not being engaged first. The Hydra is rather frail because of it's craptacular defense; a single heavy from just about any army can box it in 1 turn with decent rolls. On the other hand, if you deny the charge, it can generally make through that first assault and hyper regen + snack its way to a decent amount of health before they get another chance. Add in some beasthandler medicates and his ability to bounce back becomes pure nastiness. Mak 1 and Jackhammer with him works really well and the option of 5, 6 inch sprays when you are facing a spam list is gorgeous. My favorite thing about him is placing him near 1 edge of the board, the Cyclops shaman on the other side, and my caster in the center, then using sandstorm with all 3 makes Cygnar gunline lists cry. Have you had really good success with Sand Storm against Cygnar gunlines or any gunlines in general?
|
|
demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
|
Post by demonic on Mar 27, 2017 6:50:38 GMT
to an extent. No matter how long of a reach they have, they can never reach your back lines because of it. With the negative 3 range even cygnar gunlines get cursed. 12-14 inches becomes 9-11. Their snipers suddenly can't even shoot as long as the hydra can spray. The issue becomes when they cast down the spells to see through it and get in close enough to still pull off a decent combo attack. However, it still does turn a cygnar gunline into something closer to if we attempted to make a gunline x.x; engaging them before they get up close becomes cake since you have those additional 3 inches. they have to expose their ability users to make their other units able to see through the cloud cover. With that and a Krea I've been able to fully engage focus fire type lists. Only Khador has really been able to walk over my Hydra list... though the Khador player I had to face qualified for the world tourney x.x; Him and our merc user *shudders* when that guy plays his merc list it's just nasty; you never know what the hell he's going to throw at you next.
|
|
rac
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 8
|
Post by rac on Mar 27, 2017 7:23:17 GMT
I run ladymanyheads with makeda 1. Orin is a good investment, there are too many evil spell out there
|
|
|
Post by debilitate on Mar 27, 2017 15:55:26 GMT
Wanted to add my 2 cents in here for Morghoul1 and/or a Shaman. Just be careful of running him outside of the command range (I still think his base will be in Morghoul1's CMD even after a 12" charge). I use something like this:
Morghoul1 - Desert Hydra - Cyclops Shaman - Basilisk Krea - Aradus Soldier - Rhinodon Zaadesh1 -Titan Gladiator
PGBH (min)
Like noted earlier in the thread, Makeda1 is also a good choice.
|
|
|
Post by moberg on Mar 27, 2017 20:15:06 GMT
That feels like an unmanageable amount of fury on those beasts. How do you handle it? Apart from that, I'd like to try out the Hydra with Morghoul1 as well, but I'll probably take some more infantry and fewer beasts to stay in control of the fury.
|
|
|
Post by debilitate on Mar 28, 2017 1:35:35 GMT
Tbh, it can pain in the ass. But between the free maltreatment and zaadesh1, you can take a lot of pressure off. I tend to use the Rhinodon to trade up and throw away when it can go to SPD7 and POW21 under enrage and abuse for a 12 pt model. Consider trading the shaman for more handlers or min Karax
|
|
psyllus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
|
Post by psyllus on Mar 28, 2017 3:26:37 GMT
debilitate - How useful do you find the Krea with the Hydra?
|
|
|
Post by toconut on Mar 29, 2017 14:46:58 GMT
I've been playing it with Xekaar and his feat is Firetruckin bonkers with sandstorm. My hydra was also supported by agonizer, and this basically gave me an invincibility turn. Threat range is long enough to take something and play 2 turns consecutively.
My list was designed to handle infantry (and did amazingly good against it) but failed a bit short on protecting the caster and had troubles clearing paths. Xekaar's low impact later in the game also doesn't help. I feel it will be bonkers with some free points from a tier list, but mortality is ABSURD with the gargantuan. Everything you spray or charge dies, and 9 attacks proved to be enough to kill 2 heavies if one was under mortality.
Most games Psycho Surgery, Regeneration[D3+3] and beast handlers healed it for more than 30 boxes, allowing me to survive multiple charges.
|
|
demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
|
Post by demonic on Mar 30, 2017 16:38:15 GMT
yeah, the one issue with Xekaar is how fragile he is. Once he gets reinforced or an arc node you'll be seeing a LOT of him. For right now though, a couple drifting AoEs can knock him out
|
|
skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
|
Post by skormedlover87 on Mar 30, 2017 22:33:34 GMT
yeah, the one issue with Xekaar is how fragile he is. Once he gets reinforced or an arc node you'll be seeing a LOT of him. For right now though, a couple drifting AoEs can knock him out I think you'll be waiting for new editions before he becomes playable. If they weren't going to tweak him between Chiron and the Great Skorne Errata, they're not going to tweak him.
|
|