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Post by methios on Mar 21, 2017 20:11:22 GMT
Would it not be intresting in some cases to pop your feat first turn to get to the 24inch line and put up some mad scenario pressence (provided you went first)?
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pboyo
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 3
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Post by pboyo on Mar 21, 2017 20:36:37 GMT
Thanks, Lanz. Just got into Legion and have been building a Lylyth1-3 list in a slow-grow, but Thagrosh2 is on my list of wants from the goody bag.
Great write up!
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Post by DanX on Mar 21, 2017 21:12:48 GMT
Would it not be intresting in some cases to pop your feat first turn to get to the 24inch line and put up some mad scenario pressence (provided you went first)? I thnk that you would be better off running neraphs and angelius, and not feating. They get to the 21" line. Then you can feat turn two and put some proper hurt on. If thags can keep up... Also you can lead with hex hunters plus Bayal in OoA, 7+6+2+12 = 27 inches onto the table, giving you great board presence. Thag gets to be... 19" up if you really want with a slipstream. It's going to be a fast game one way or the other...
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Mar 21, 2017 21:50:39 GMT
Nice write-up, Lanz
I don't see anything in there about Blight Wasps, and I gotta say they've seriously impressed me with Thags2:
1 - Under MD, their damage output is way above their points cost. You reliably knock off 2/3 of a Khador heavy, and can easily kill more fragile heavies like Legion warbeasts.
2 - the value-per-point is multiplied hugely under his feat. For the same price as a Raek, you can get 4 attacks at POW 11.
3 - they become much easier to deliver under Oracles, as they become your default apparition recipients
-und_ed
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 21, 2017 21:57:06 GMT
Nice write-up, Lanz I don't see anything in there about Blight Wasps, and I gotta say they've seriously impressed me with Thags2: 1 - Under MD, their damage output is way above their points cost. You reliably knock off 2/3 of a Khador heavy, and can easily kill more fragile heavies like Legion warbeasts. 2 - the value-per-point is multiplied hugely under his feat. For the same price as a Raek, you can get 4 attacks at POW 11. 3 - they become much easier to deliver under Oracles, as they become your default apparition recipients -und_ed I mentioned them briefly along with lessers and pointed out that I haven't really experimented with wasps under thagrosh2.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Mar 22, 2017 9:21:16 GMT
Ah fair enough.
I really recommend them, especially under Oracles. For all the reasons I listed above.
Think of them as a single SPD 7 (9 in Oracles) Warbeast that can pump out 6 boosted POW 11 hits, and the rest slots into place very quickly. Usually they struggle to be delivered, but I've found with Thaggy2 that if you play them as your second wave (my first wave of engagement is of course the pair of Raeks) then your opponent has far more pressing targets to shoot. Add in MD to those 6 boosted POW 11s, and they really tear into heavies. All for the price of a Raek.
-und_ed
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Mar 22, 2017 12:45:41 GMT
Thags problem right now is that the game is incredibly ranged dependent right now. Most lists out threat what he brings to the table and it's hard to hide thagrosh. It's why Abby2 is taken more than him right now. She provides the speed and mobility to get in first and do enough damage. Thags offers a way out with the feat, similar to vayl1 That's exactly why I play Abby2 and Fyanna2 right now. Thags doesn't threaten far enough anymore which is less his fault and more the fault of MK3 reducing Carnivean chassis beasts down to SPD5 from 6. Abby2 fixes this problem with Alpha Hunter + Slipstream and Fyanna tends to take SPD7 beasts anyway.
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Post by Cheesebeard on Mar 25, 2017 21:24:40 GMT
I'm surprised you didn't mention that the Ogrun Warchief gives Thagrosh +1 to his attack rolls, just like all other blighted Ogrun. Not always the most useful interaction, but can be pretty awesome with his 10" spray, and spells (not to mention melee runs).
Thagrosh2 was my second most played in MK2, and saw me into multiple masters events. Although he's less "in" right now, he still has game, and he really likes the Hellmouth.
What I think hurt him the most is lessers getting hit so hard, combined with the hit to Legionnaires and Warspears - I always ran him with a durable unit and a spawning vessel, and that module could often hold an entire zone on its own. I'm interred to try him with some Neraphs, now that I've warmed up to them on account of Fyanna2.
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Post by systemdown on Mar 29, 2017 13:52:17 GMT
I would like to add my own experiences with Thags2, who is my most played caster in both Mk2 and Mk3. I think he is far more flexible than people give him credit for, and can run pretty much any beast we have. That being said, I think there are two broad ways of running him successfully: run a seraph and keep him back until the late game or bolster his defensive stats and push him up to bully the board (there is the third option that Lanz discussed of the Nephalim/Angel hit and run, but that never clicked for me).
My personal preference is to play him fairly aggressively and get as much use out of his PS18 as possible. First up my List:
Thagrosh2 - Sucubus - Typhon - Zuriel - Nephalim Protector - Blight Wasps - Naga Nightlurker Grotesque Assassin x2 Shepherd x3 Spell Martyr Warmonger War Chief Strider Blightblades
I do this by playing heavily for scenario and look to dominate a flag/zone ASAP. If I get the choice I generally choose sides rather than going first as this allows me to pick favorable terrain (v important), counter deploy against the enemy and start scoring first. As I am looking to play aggressively for scenario, I will deploy Thags to go for the least contested scenario piece. Once he is on the scenario piece, ideally a flag, he can sit there and fairly reliably kill anything that comes in to contest.
So to the rest of the list - Typhon is Typhon, he gets Dragons Blood Turn 1 and he wrecks face. With DB up on him he can really take a punch as well (I used him to bait out Behemoth before and he only lost one aspect in the process) - Zuriel I love with Thags2. Manifest Destiny really helps with PS16 and he can drop most heavies, or at the very least cut off all the weapons, then spd6 and flight really help get the hell out of dodge on feat turn. His sprays also mean that I can play this list into some serious infantry and put the damage out if necessary. - Protector/Succubus/War Chief, otherwise known as the Thagrosh enablement package. Its a lot of points, but Def 15 to melee and shooting, parry, Mat8, Rat 6 and Magic 8 + a free upkeep of Dragons Blood for the big guy really ups his game. - Blight Wasps become serious armor crackers under manifest destiny and will reasonably reliably one round Arm 19 heavies. On feat turn they can threat solos 21" away, this is great if you see a journeyman across the board, they are also premier jammers on feat turn and Def 13 is just good enough to make them annoying to remove. - The Naga is a new addition to the list, I was running 2x Wasps but felt I was loosing to many on the approach, tried a Raek but found myself in a game where I would really have liked Wraithbane. - The Assassins are there for solo removal and to apply grievous as required. You don't really need 2 but I like the redundancy. - Shepherds and Spell Martyr are fairly self explanatory - The blightblades are another key ingredient to the flexibility of this list. They either ambush to clear the backfield and split the enemy (or counter enemy ambushers) or, if there is no benefit to this, they are a fairly hard to shift screening unit.
Overall this list is super flexible and I am pretty comfortable playing this into all but extreme skews, and even then it has some game. I am generally winning on scenario, or assassination forced by scenario pressure.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 2, 2017 14:35:37 GMT
I'd like to get back to using Thagrosh 2 and some real beast heavy lists. I've got Abby2 running the heaviest of heavies (BB, Proteus, Carnivean) with some bees on the advantage of alpha hunter threat extension. But due to the lack of turn-by-turn threat extension on Thagrosh I thought I'd try to play to the other side of the coin. Thus - conflictchamber.com/#ca201b_-0taDbfbfeJeJ2929292929aRbbbbbecocob9b9b1Legion Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Oracles of Annihilation (Thagrosh 2) Thagrosh, the Messiah [+25] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Neraph [12] - Neraph [12] - Shredder [4] - Shredder [4] - Shredder [4] - Shredder [4] - Shredder [4] - Typhon [24] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1] Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion [0(6)] Spell Martyr [1] Spell Martyr [1] The Forsaken [0(4)] The Forsaken [0(4)] Spawning Vessel (min) [5] Primary Directive - feat turn. Most of the time I hate building specifically for a feat, but I think Thagrosh 2 warrants it. (As does Vayl 1, but haven't figured out that puzzle in a way i like yet) So the idea is to use the bolt throwers to push targets back that would out threaten my beats. Hope for a knockdown here or there. But mainly the control they give over enemy heavies is something I've come to respect and enjoy. Once the front line (that I've not pushed around) gets into threat range I pop feat and send in the Neraphs. Under Md they may kill heavies, at least I hope they do. Then I sprint them further into the enemy lines (minding the walk range of future shredders). This then creates two possible options; If the inital target lived, no sprint and send in shredders for flank. If the heavy is dead sprint to a new target to give flank to shredders. Then obviously the shredders do what damage they can. Under the feat the shredders go first to get flank from the Neraphs. Then, if positioning went well or damage fell on the right columns, the Neraphs back out with the feat. Hopefully I did my best to put shredders in the way enough that not much can get to the Neraphs the next turn. But again, can't predict board state in theorycrafting. All the while Typhon and the bolt throwers are meant to take their ranged shots and then back out with the feat. Heck maybe under manifest destiny a bolt thrower can get a kill in melee for quick work. But basically I expect the shredders to die, the Neraphs to play hit-and-run, Bolt throwers to be pushy, and Typhon to be a coward till the last minute even with arm 19 excessive healing. Pot is there to use apparition and try to pad out the battlegroup after the feat turn. To me this just seems like the most fun and tactically involved I can make. I've never been a fan of "apply axe to face" gameplay. Abby 2 is still the one I would use for that anyways. So I plan to run with this idea for a bit. I just completely stripped and disassembled Thags to rebuild and repaint him as he was one of the first casters I did paint and he clearly showed the lack of finesse. He was my default caster in MK2 and I really feel bad that i've not even considered him since the transition. So we'll see how it goes. I'm really starting to nail down lists I really enjoy for the handful of casters. I just really need to get more games. one a week every other week does not make for much progress and testing opportunities.
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Post by redbaron89 on Aug 2, 2017 16:07:38 GMT
Typhon would be arm 20 with excessive healing. He got buffed from mk2 to mk3 to base arm 18. List looks fun.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 2, 2017 16:38:00 GMT
Typhon would be arm 20 with excessive healing. He got buffed from mk2 to mk3 to base arm 18. List looks fun. ah, shows how little I've played him. Still going to have to keep him back as much as I can. The list can't afford to lose him early.
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Post by copperflame on Aug 3, 2017 18:04:32 GMT
Love the write up! Thank you so much!
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Post by bloodhawk on Aug 3, 2017 21:30:27 GMT
- Blight Wasps become serious armor crackers under manifest destiny and will reasonably reliably one round Arm 19 heavies. On feat turn they can threat solos 21" away, this is great if you see a journeyman across the board, they are also premier jammers on feat turn and Def 13 is just good enough to make them annoying to remove. I wanted to follow up on this comment to make sure I was clear on how the beastpacks work. If I read them correctly they would get a free charge (as they are a unit), followed by 3 boosted initial attacks, plus 1 last bought attack. Assuming all 4 are in range this would net you 4 Mat8 PS11 boosted manifest destiny attacks and 1 unboosted PS11 attack. Unless I am missing something I don't think this can 1 round an Arm 19 heavy. By my rough math your attacks would end up with 5 damage per boosted attack (PS 11 + 10 to 11 for boosted dmg + 2 for manifest destiny = 24 - 19 or 5 dmg per attack. That nets 20 dmg plus a potential 1 or 2 more from the unboosted attack. Am I missing something?
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Aug 4, 2017 5:09:11 GMT
You get 6 attacks with boosted damage from a unit of charging Blight Wasps. They can one round an ARM 19 heavy jack under Manifest Destiny but more often then not they'll be coming up short.
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