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Post by polymonith on Mar 24, 2017 19:23:09 GMT
When I look at Kharybdis, I think at what point does this guy become good. If we just adjust its points. I don't think it would every be reasonable to go below 14 but at 14 he be really good, I think better than any option. Which is a good indicator that 14 is too low. At 15 points he would be competing with Barathrum and Malice. I personal like either of those better, though I can see people picking Kharybdis. Any higher in point cost, why I am not just bringing Barathrum or Malice. Though to concede to PP or maybe balance, at 16 points he would still be a viable choice for certain builds, though I still feel Malice will perform better in the same role for control or Erebus/Barathrum for threat. 17 pts seems too high to take except for very specialized lists, 18 is in the never take realm, but this guy is 19. I am just not seeing it.
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Mar 24, 2017 21:43:56 GMT
I'm really salivating to run him under Terminus. The 4" melee on ravager and ability to fish for blind crits (may need the WSC here) is pretty awesome. I don't see how he's any better than Erebus in this respect, especially considering Erebus is 3 points cheaper. Erebus might only have 1" reach, but he also has overtake to let him Pac Man around and instead of a one shot Crit Blind Gun he has auto stationary fists. I'll take 1" Bezerk + Overtake over 4" melee if I'm trying to clear out dudes any day. 4" reach is a >10" AOE. Erebus is 4". Yes Erebus can inch around but I often find he gets stuck with noone to hit. A 10" pseudo thresher area is better IMO.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 24, 2017 23:21:15 GMT
I don't see how he's any better than Erebus in this respect, especially considering Erebus is 3 points cheaper. Erebus might only have 1" reach, but he also has overtake to let him Pac Man around and instead of a one shot Crit Blind Gun he has auto stationary fists. I'll take 1" Bezerk + Overtake over 4" melee if I'm trying to clear out dudes any day. 4" reach is a >10" AOE. Erebus is 4". Yes Erebus can inch around but I often find he gets stuck with noone to hit. A 10" pseudo thresher area is better IMO. Personally I always got more mileage out of putting Ravager on Erebus than I did putting it on a Kraken, but I guess this is a case of your results may vary.
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Mar 25, 2017 1:05:17 GMT
4" reach is a >10" AOE. Erebus is 4". Yes Erebus can inch around but I often find he gets stuck with noone to hit. A 10" pseudo thresher area is better IMO. Personally I always got more mileage out of putting Ravager on Erebus than I did putting it on a Kraken, but I guess this is a case of your results may vary. The difference for me is Mat 7. A mat 6 kraken whiffs against def 13 enough that it's often not worth it. Mat 7 means that you hit def 13 72% of the time which is enough to make Berserk quite nice.
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Grimolf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 246
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Post by Grimolf on Mar 25, 2017 18:30:01 GMT
You are all making good arguments about Kharybdis' weaknesses, but I still *really* want to like him. With Aiakos2 he'll be able to throw up a cloud to block LOS to Aiakos, who is quite vulnerable against ranged attackers. Plus, under feat, he'll threaten 15" (17" under assail) and still be able to get off his spray to threaten out to 19" (21" under assail). Getting Assault on the feat turn goes a little way toward making up for not having gunfighter (a big oversight on design, I'll admit). I like running the Withershadow Combine with Aiakos2 (for the extra Stranglehold or White Squall), so I'll have an easy source of Puppet Master to put on Kharybdis to help fish for the Crit Blind. Anyway, I know I may be ignoring some problems here, but I really do want to like Kharybdis.
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Post by svirfneblin on Mar 26, 2017 2:13:43 GMT
You are all making good arguments about Kharybdis' weaknesses, but I still *really* want to like him. *snip*, I know I may be ignoring some problems here, but I really do want to like Kharybdis. So like him. No one here is saying DON'T play with something you like. I mean I use the Iron Lich Overseer. Just go in with a critical mind when you add a model like Karybds and how they're going to perform. Don't blind yourself to a given models short comings just because you like it. At the same time don't let other people dictate what you can and cannot use. All the information, whether positive or negative is just there to help you make your own decision. As always, proxy him a bunch and report back with your findings.
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Karybdis
Mar 26, 2017 6:22:26 GMT
via mobile
Post by Gorbad Ironclaw on Mar 26, 2017 6:22:26 GMT
On his Acid cloud ability. Am I reading it correctly when I read that you get corrosion applied to you, but it won't inflict a point of damage immediately? So as long as you are willing to potentially lose the models one wound models can enter the clue just fine?
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Post by Zygare on Mar 26, 2017 6:52:27 GMT
Yep the cloud is not very scary.
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Post by tiberius on Mar 27, 2017 18:28:21 GMT
I was a bit disappointed when I saw the rules for this guy, I like the threat range and the versatility that a 4" reach gives, but having the cloud as a *action and nothing special for having 8 tentacles was very disappointing. I expected it to have 8 initials at pow 10 and be able to combine them into a pair of pow 16s or pow 18s or something.
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Post by Morganstern on Mar 27, 2017 18:41:34 GMT
Yep the cloud is not very scary. I think what really irks me is that the cloud is a * action whereas a Kodiak can do theirs for free. It's that kind of rules inconsistency that gives the impression of "favourite factions" among the rules designers.
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Post by Swampmist on Mar 27, 2017 20:21:36 GMT
Yep the cloud is not very scary. I think what really irks me is that the cloud is a * action whereas a Kodiak can do theirs for free. It's that kind of rules inconsistency that gives the impression of "favourite factions" among the rules designers. Now you know how the castigator feels
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Nyxu
Overseer
NaCl Elemental
Posts: 119
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Karybdis
Mar 28, 2017 0:02:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by Nyxu on Mar 28, 2017 0:02:37 GMT
The one that can do it on a charge and buy attacks and does damage on its aoe?
: ^)
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Post by Swampmist on Mar 28, 2017 1:42:37 GMT
Nope, castigator can't charge and do it, since the *attack is on his body and not his weapons. It's the one thing PoM has been asking for on him since mk3 dropped :^)
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Post by far2casual on Mar 28, 2017 7:01:12 GMT
Nope, castigator can't charge and do it, since the *attack is on his body and not his weapons. It's the one thing PoM has been asking for on him since mk3 dropped :^) What ?
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Post by Gauner on Mar 28, 2017 12:57:59 GMT
Nope, castigator can't charge and do it, since the *attack is on his body and not his weapons. It's the one thing PoM has been asking for on him since mk3 dropped :^) What ? Yes, indeed. After a model makes a successful charge it "must use its Combat Action to make either initial melee attacks or a special attack with a melee weapon." (pg. 31) Combustion is not on a melee weapon, so no dice. The fact that Combustion doesn't need a target is situationally useful. It would be nice if it could be used on the charge while keeping that ability, but if it had to lose the no-target benefit to make it useable on the charge, I think I'd make the trade.
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