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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 11, 2017 17:36:23 GMT
So, the place I play at has the following players with:
Three Circle mains (with one Legion secondary)
Two Khador mains (with one Grymkin secondary)
One Cygnar/Cryx main
One Legion main
One Menoth main
One Trollbloods main (Convergence secondary)
One Gatormen main
One Dwarves main
Two Retribution mains
Mainly just curious what initial impressions are of the meta. First gut reaction in terms of what you might play in response to the meta?
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 11, 2017 19:17:17 GMT
First thoughts:
Even split between WM/H
Higher than expected number of Circle.
Lower than expected number of "meta boogeymen" ie Cygnar/Cryx. Khador excepted of course.
Beyond this, it gets harder to predict what's getting played.
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 11, 2017 22:45:08 GMT
First thoughts: Even split between WM/H Higher than expected number of Circle. Lower than expected number of "meta boogeymen" ie Cygnar/Cryx. Khador excepted of course. Beyond this, it gets harder to predict what's getting played. Sorry, but what I meant by people playing is what would you as a Legion player play in response to the meta. |
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 11, 2017 23:55:52 GMT
In that case:
Definitely have a ARM breaking list to deal with jacks/beasts.
I would gamble that there's also a smaller shooting presence, unless the Ret player are loving their AFGs, so I would hazard a guess you could get away with less anti-shooting tech.
P.S.
I saw on another thread that Circle hard counter Legion, any care to elaborate? There's only one Druid in my neck of the woods, and I have yet to play him.
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 12, 2017 2:52:38 GMT
In that case: Definitely have a ARM breaking list to deal with jacks/beasts. I would gamble that there's also a smaller shooting presence, unless the Ret player are loving their AFGs, so I would hazard a guess you could get away with less anti-shooting tech. P.S. I saw on another thread that Circle hard counter Legion, any care to elaborate? There's only one Druid in my neck of the woods, and I have yet to play him. Alright, makes sense. Essentially, they Legion better than Legion does. They also have the tools to become a mini-Khador. Generally Circle always out-threats, out-armors, or out-damages Legion. Pick two of the three, and that will be present in a list. Also, Circle brings the most anti-Hordes tech I've ever seen in a faction. In addition, with PP's push towards making Legion players want to bring a little bit more infantry, Circle LOVES that. Infantry are Circle's hotcakes. And, Circle has more hit-fixers than you could shake a stick at, so with most Legion pieces relying on high defense to stay alive, so obviously thats a problem. To quote one of the Circle players: "Circle has an extremely high learning curve. However, once you get past that learning curve, its very easy to master." Whats meant by this is most Circle players have a grand 10-step plan from turn one, that usually isn't fully executed until turn three, but by that point they've set up five ways to execute that plan, and you can only block three. My advice (its the only way I've ever won) is to make a mad dash for their warlock. But, then again, if you're being forced to do that, then they just skipped a few steps in their plan. |
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Post by snotling on Sept 12, 2017 4:19:33 GMT
Funny, I never had a problem with circle at all. Blessed/Eyeless sight shooting works very well, and I never felt outthreated.
And Circle is the only faction we dont play at least a heavy down, because theirs are overpriced as well xD.
Maybe i just never see them, but what lists do they outhreat out 16"?
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760 
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Post by unded on Sept 12, 2017 11:33:03 GMT
Legion still out-threats Circle. It's one of the only advantages Legion has over the hippies.
For the rest though... it's rough. I find I shoot better with Circle than I do with Legion. My beasts hit harder, and I have MUCH better delivery mechanisms when using my Circle.
Not having any Cygnar in your meta really opens things up a bunch though. I'd skew towards big melee warbeast-centric armies. Thagrosh1 is really tempting, as is Absy2, and of course the ever-present Fyanna Oracles. You could make a play for really pushing that threat range advantage with Vayl2 as well, very useful in a meta with lots of Circle since you don't need to push up your POW against circle, just make sure you hit.
-und_ed
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twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
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Post by twity on Sept 12, 2017 12:20:22 GMT
In my experience, the other key to taking out circle is to pick their key solos/single shifting stone/UA and legion has some great tools to do that. Also warpwolves suffer against legion in my experience.
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 13, 2017 17:06:30 GMT
In my experience, the other key to taking out circle is to pick their key solos/single shifting stone/UA and legion has some great tools to do that. Also warpwolves suffer against legion in my experience. In my experience taking out sentry stones is the least of my worries, and does the least for me. Warpwolves are the second-scariest class of warbeasts, imo. |
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 13, 2017 17:08:49 GMT
Funny, I never had a problem with circle at all. Blessed/Eyeless sight shooting works very well, and I never felt outthreated. And Circle is the only faction we dont play at least a heavy down, because theirs are overpriced as well xD. Maybe i just never see them, but what lists do they outhreat out 16"? Not as badly overpriced as ours, though lol. I don't have any memorized. What kind of lists do you see? I'm curious what in Circle is slow enough to be out-threated by Legion. |
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 13, 2017 17:27:10 GMT
Is it safe to say that when people say, Circle Warbeast, they're usually referring to a Warpwolf of some flavor? I bring it up because I don't really hear much about the Satyrs or most of the pre-CID Wolds.
In that case we're talking about a 17-19pt beast with DEF14, ARM16-18, and PS14-18 before Primal. /Two/ of them threat 11+" in melee and one threats 19" from range.
They don't seem that far off our Carnivean chassis.
Also, I don't play(against) Circle, so how far can they threat extend in Mk3? I remember there being a series of changes that really shortened it compared to their Mk2 Shifting Stones days.
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 13, 2017 17:48:46 GMT
Is it safe to say that when people say, Circle Warbeast, they're usually referring to a Warpwolf of some flavor? I bring it up because I don't really hear much about the Satyrs or most of the pre-CID Wolds. In that case we're talking about a 17-19pt beast with DEF14, ARM16-18, and PS14-18 before Primal. /Two/ of them threat 11+" in melee and one threats 19" from range. They don't seem that far off our Carnivean chassis. Also, I don't play(against) Circle, so how far can they threat extend in Mk3? I remember there being a series of changes that really shortened it compared to their Mk2 Shifting Stones days. I see all three varieties of heavies. I've seen threats extended up to 5", but that was thanks to a feat. Outside of that, its usually anywhere from 2-4". |
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 13, 2017 18:19:19 GMT
I see all three varieties of heavies. I've seen threats extended up to 5", but that was thanks to a feat. Outside of that, its usually anywhere from 2-4". Wolds I can see people taking, but what are they doing with Satyrs? For threat extension, I'm gonna assume Hunter's Mark + ....something? |
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Sept 13, 2017 21:42:45 GMT
Not as badly overpriced as ours, though lol. I don't have any memorized. What kind of lists do you see? I'm curious what in Circle is slow enough to be out-threated by Legion. Most of Circle is out-threatened by Legion. The flying beasts are obviously faster, while even the Carnivean chassis is faster once you add in slipstream. The only thing comparable to slipstream in Circle is a hunter's mark solo (blackclad or Lanyssa), which still needs to roll to hit, has to work around spell-hate and can often be sniped before it gets to make hunter's mark count. Honestly I find I use my blackclads more for a magical spray than for hunter's mark. The Feral can warp up to SPD 8, but it's pretty unlikely that a POW 15 feral is going to do much of note with that charge. You could Primal him, but now you're throwing away a 17-point heavy without even requiring your opponent to kill him, so I hope he's doing something worthwhile with that SPD 8 charge. Add to that the problem that Ghetto and the Feral don't have pathfinder (and the already-pillowfisted pureblood needs to warp for pathfinder, so he's doing no damage if he has it), and Legion easily wins the threat range game. Both factions have a few caster-based threat extenders, but that's pretty much a wash. It's the only real advantage I feel Legion has in the matchup though, so make it count. -und_ed |
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Sept 13, 2017 21:59:39 GMT
Regarding threat extender numbers, Circle's only threat extender is hunter's mark. Stone teleports are now universally shorter range than just charging, so really not in the equation anymore.
For Circle's popular casters, here's the others:
Wurmwood - Hellmouth. This can be crazy big, especially when playing a list that loads wurmwood up on enough souls to double-hellmouth. If he lives the dream this can be 19" from a stalker/Ghettorix, so watch out.
Una2 - Feat for an extra 2" on griffons, Apparition 2" (telegraphed turn before, though)
Kromac1 - 3" from Warpath
Bradigus - 5" feat
Mohsar - Apparition 2" (see above)
Krueger2- 2" Telekenesis, could be 4" if he TKs the target as well
That's about it.
-und_ed
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