Haven't played since Mk.2 - Looking for Feedback on Lists

gamertagsj
Baby's First Wargame

Posts: 4

Haven't played since Mk.2 - Looking for Feedback on Lists Aug 31, 2017 16:54:32 GMT

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Post by gamertagsj on Aug 31, 2017 16:54:32 GMT

Hi everyone!

As the heading says I haven't played Mk.3 yet, but I'm interested in returning with these lists -

75

(Butcher 1) Orsus Zoktavir, The Butcher of Khardov [+28] Theme: WGK

- Marauder [10]

- Marauder [10]

- Marauder [10]

- Marauder [10]

- Ruin [17]

Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich
[4]
Winter Guard Mortar Crew
[0]
Winter Guard Mortar Crew [0]

Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]

- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]

Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]

- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]

Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]

- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]

(Sorscha 1) Kommander Sorscha [+29]
Theme: WGK

- Conquest [37]
or Victor [38]
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4]

Winter Guard Artillery Kapitan [0]

Winter Guard Artillery Kapitan [3]

Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]

Winter Guard Mortar Crew [0]

Winter Guard Mortar Crew [0]

Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]

- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]

Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]

- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]

Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]

- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]

Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]

- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]

I just have a couple questions -
1. I played a variety of factions in Mk.2 - Cryx, Menoth, Khador, Cygnar - meaning I've experimented enough to be able to settle on a couple things and stick with them for a while. I think I'll enjoy this, and I wonder if these lists are balanced enough for 'all-comers' as I intend to play them exclusively for some time. If they aren't, are there variations you might suggest that will shore up bad match-ups?
2. What are the merits of Victor vs. Conquest with Sorscha1? It seems that Victor is the more popular choice, is that just because he helps deal with stealth? Conquest seems to have more consistent ranged output.

Thanks for the help!

borderprince
Junior Strategist

Posts: 974

Haven't played since Mk.2 - Looking for Feedback on Lists Sept 1, 2017 5:24:34 GMT

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Post by borderprince on Sept 1, 2017 5:24:34 GMT

Aug 31, 2017 16:54:32 GMT gamertagsj said:

Hi everyone!

As the heading says I haven't played Mk.3 yet, but I'm interested in returning with these lists -

1. I played a variety of factions in Mk.2 - Cryx, Menoth, Khador, Cygnar - meaning I've experimented enough to be able to settle on a couple things and stick with them for a while. I think I'll enjoy this, and I wonder if these lists are balanced enough for 'all-comers' as I intend to play them exclusively for some time. If they aren't, are there variations you might suggest that will shore up bad match-ups?

Thanks for the help!

In terms of balanced enough, both lists stress repeated WGRC units with rockets. Those are popular units because they are powerful, but have some important weaknesses:
(1) Anti-shooting tech. Stealth is the most obvious, but anything that reduces range can also be an issue. Butcher1 answers this with one mortar, Sorscha1 has a bit more via a colossal, but not that much;

(2) Magic attacks. There is no answer to incorporeal here, which is important because of the increased use of incorporeal in Cryx (Ghost Fleet theme especially);

(3) Being engaged. The WGRC have long ranges for rifles, but opponents running to engage (or ambushing, etc) tie them up and they can struggle to disengage;

(4) High ARM lists. Butcher1 can help with this, but against a Khador list with 8 jacks, it is only really on feat turn that even his list will do that much damage (average rolls outside of feat have rocketeers doing 2-3 points of damage to a Juggernaut). Sorscha's colossal can't be in enough places to do the job;

(5) Scenario. The WGRC don't want to be running around claiming zones, and the Butcher list (especially) doesn't have much else to do the job.

It's not that either list is bad, but half or more of their points are tied up in the same models, with the same weaknesses.

One quick suggestion for modification, rather than total rework - try Butcher1 with a unit or two of WGI + UA, rather than the rifles. They cost the same per unit, and provide some crowd clearing that works against stealth (once per game sprays) and a bit more in the way of movement. Giving them Fury + Bear's Strength also gives a surprisingly nasty melee unit too.

smoothcriminal
The Sky Fell

Posts: 1,212

Haven't played since Mk.2 - Looking for Feedback on Lists Sept 1, 2017 13:26:54 GMT

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Post by smoothcriminal on Sept 1, 2017 13:26:54 GMT

I think both lists are countered by same things. I don't agree on points 3-5 of previous poster (jacks and freezes can disengage, rockets+jacks are enough to crack arm especially with butcher, you have all types of scenario scoring and good volume of bodies for contesting), but incorp/menoth and clouds/stealth will shut this pair down pretty hard.

borderprince
Junior Strategist

Posts: 974

Haven't played since Mk.2 - Looking for Feedback on Lists Sept 1, 2017 14:15:30 GMT

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Post by borderprince on Sept 1, 2017 14:15:30 GMT

Sept 1, 2017 13:26:54 GMT smoothcriminal said:

you have all types of scenario scoring and good volume of bodies for contesting.

I'm not convinced, at least in SR2017 terms. The Sorscha list has only one jack for rectangular zones, which is the most obvious issue (aside from WGRC not wanting to move forward too far). Other zones can of course be contested, but having a single jack makes some scenario victories much more difficult, and that is handing an advantage to an opponent.

Blargaliscious
Junior Strategist

Don't pull the pin...

Posts: 626

Haven't played since Mk.2 - Looking for Feedback on Lists Sept 1, 2017 18:50:01 GMT

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Post by Blargaliscious on Sept 1, 2017 18:50:01 GMT

Sept 1, 2017 14:15:30 GMT borderprince said:

Sept 1, 2017 13:26:54 GMT smoothcriminal said:

you have all types of scenario scoring and good volume of bodies for contesting.

I'm not convinced, at least in SR2017 terms. The Sorscha list has only one jack for rectangular zones, which is the most obvious issue (aside from WGRC not wanting to move forward too far). Other zones can of course be contested, but having a single jack makes some scenario victories much more difficult, and that is handing an advantage to an opponent.

I think the OP is counting on that one jack being a hard to take down colossal, with a min squad of Battle Mechaniks right behind it, to mitigate the potential of having the only scoring warjack destroyed.

Would replacing the Conquest with a Devastator and a Juggernaut be better?

Growing up I always wanted to be a marine biologist, because it seemed like the perfect combination of shooting people and studying animals.

Earth First! We'll strip mine the rest of the planets later...

leotherat
Junior Strategist

Posts: 374

Haven't played since Mk.2 - Looking for Feedback on Lists Sept 1, 2017 19:32:39 GMT

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Post by leotherat on Sept 1, 2017 19:32:39 GMT

Let's be honest. If a person is going to go after a gargossal then they're going to make sure it's finished. The mechanics may get to fix some incidental damage (blast damage from a diviated AoE) but they're a waste when someone wants to go after a gargossal.

wendan
Junior Strategist

Posts: 785

Haven't played since Mk.2 - Looking for Feedback on Lists Sept 1, 2017 22:44:26 GMT

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Post by wendan on Sept 1, 2017 22:44:26 GMT

I suppose? I mean, that incidental damage can add up over a game, and make it easier for that destructive run. An opponent will be more likely to try killing a conquest on 52 boxes than one of 62, or at least will be forced to commit less when they do so.

It is important to note that I am just awful at this game. Seriously, watching me play is like watching Keanu Reeves perform Hamlet. It's funny at first, but then starts to get quietly sad, until you just want to leave the room.

gamertagsj
Baby's First Wargame

Posts: 4

Haven't played since Mk.2 - Looking for Feedback on Lists Sept 3, 2017 3:22:18 GMT

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Post by gamertagsj on Sept 3, 2017 3:22:18 GMT

Thanks, this is all helpful.

I'm thinking about something like this for the Sorscha list now, as it should address most of the issues raised. Thoughts?

(Sorscha 1) Kommander Sorscha [+29]
- Behemoth [25]
- Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4]
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Winter Guard Gun Carriage [17]