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Post by pardusprime on Aug 31, 2017 15:44:30 GMT
A younger, less experienced player than me recently asked me for advice about how to not get turned into swiss cheese by a ranged-focused army (I surmised from his comments he got pasted by a Cygnaran army in the last game).
Legion's not my bag, so I broken open Battle College and started looking over the pieces for some way to get Legion there without them getting shot off the board, and apart from Kryssa covering her entire army with multiple Cloaks of Ashes, I'm not sure how Legion handles a gunline. They've not got a lot of Shield Guards, and them that are are expensive. Lilith looks like she might provide a marketable answer by being a gunline of her own, but I'm not seeing a lot of ways to gain Stealth or range in Legion, meaning Cygnar and Retribution will be able to engage first.
Any suggestions I can pass on to him so I look way smarter about this game than I really am?
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Post by lordvader on Aug 31, 2017 16:05:46 GMT
Thagrosh1 has Fog of War, and Rapture mapes a 3" cloud when he kills something with it. Kryssa with Cloak of Ash (it's an upkeep so only 1 model/unit can be covered at a time), Fyanna for her feat, Abby2 with Bracer, Abby1 with Forced Evolution, Rhyas has Occultation, Twins have Occultation as well, Saeryn has her feat, Thagrosh 2 has Dragon's Blood, Vayl 2 has Occultation and Deadly Storm, Lylyth3 has Wind Wall.
Sorceress & Hellion has Wind Ravager.
Carnivean has Spiny Growth, Blightbringer has a +2 armor aura, Nephalim Protector has shield guard. Zuriel gains stealth with Rhyas, Azrael gains cloak of Ash with Kryssa.
I think that's pretty much all of Legions defensive tech against shooting (I may have missed something). Alternatively, your friend could also make a shooting army and attempt to out-shoot the opposing army. Your friend may also be able to add some minions like the Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew for more clouds.
Blocking LoS to the Legion models will always help, so clouds and terrain is always a thing.
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Post by chillychinaman on Aug 31, 2017 16:09:30 GMT
The main survival trick is to hide within/behind terrain and take advantage of our native Pathfinder/Flight. Doesn't help much for our melee beasts, but we're also paying a premium on many beasts for melee and range attacks so I guess we're supposed to use both. Gun, run, and, then punch I suppose?
Another idea is to try Bethayne. Her, Belphagor, and a succubus can make a 13" wide cloud wall. As long as you can protect/body block those three, the rest of your army can hide behind the LoS breaking clouds. I'm not too familiar with gun-based Cygnar since most of my experience/meta is with jack/Knight based, but I don't think they have too much that can see through clouds.
Edit: For the duration of the current CID, Ice witches can you give you a 9" cloud wall too.
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Post by drakkenblut on Aug 31, 2017 17:43:16 GMT
Any Legion army can take two Deathstalkers and Anyssa, giving you some serious anti infantry and anti solo possibilities at range, so you can actually whittle down a gunline with those models.
Hellmouth gives you something to hide behind. It is a real pain to remove for the opponent.
I don't see gunlines as a problem with Legion.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 31, 2017 18:22:19 GMT
It might not be popular. But I run infantry heavy. I keep my beasts outside of walk+shoot range of the enmey army why getting the infantry into said guns. Once there I have dealt with enough of the guns to send in the beasts to mop up.
More practical means have been stated; Use terrain.
Last game I play was against Haley1 SoT with well over 35+ gun shots under feat turn. I hide near all my infantry behind a forest (even the ones without pathfinder). I decidedly charged Zuriel up towards a house with dodge. He did not reach the house but the first missed attack let him dodge into cover. He then danced between edges of the house as my opponent took dozens of shots at a def 17 model, that then got engaged and went to 21. He survived on 6hp. Kallus healed him 1 he needed, put Overrun up on Azrael, Azrael kills a pony, Zuriel walks over the building to get Los on haley and walked up and gave her two ps16 high-fives.
The only reason I had any remote chance against that many guns with an all melee list was the terrain.
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Post by snotling on Aug 31, 2017 19:18:14 GMT
Recent events let me add vayl1 to the list:
Jamming three angels 23 inches up the field turn one behind some cover really puts the pressuere on. Two units of blightblades jamming 27" will be the next thing i will try. Vs a gunline, I really don't need the feat otherwise.
I also have to second the terrain thing.
Chill behind a forest, slipstream in and charge out.
This only gets a problem if peopole try to play mk2 terrain. If someone trys that, slp them with the steamroller rules for terrain. xD
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Sept 1, 2017 4:22:09 GMT
Stealth skews can work against some gunlines, like Vlad 1 rocket spam.
Thagrosh 1's feat and Fog of War can help you survive long enough to close the distance, you'll also run Typhon with Thagrosh who is pretty durable against most guns thanks to Excessive Healing.
Vayl 2, Lylyth 2 and Lylyth 3 are all very good at threatening long range assassinations on the usually squishy casters that run gunlines, and Lylyth 3 has Wind Wall.
Fyanna 2 can skew DEF high enough on feat turn to cause some problems for even the most accurate gunlines, and Saeryn 1 can skew ARM with Thrones, Carniveans and her feat.
In general, you want to take the most advantage of terrain as you can with high speed Flight models, breaking line of sight, gaining cover/concealment, and engaging your opponent quickly. Ambushing units can help tie up guns and most gunlines have a weakness on scenario that you can capitalise on by keeping them as far back on their own side of the table as possible.
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Post by DanX on Sept 1, 2017 15:33:54 GMT
The old running to engage trick works pretty well.
Spd 6 or 7 flying things can advance into cover/behind LOS blocking, then run to engage the next turn. Then the turn afterwards you get your proper alpha in while your opponent trying to clean their way out of the mess you've made them. If you got to go first you also get to score a few points. Gunlines like going second so its likely you got to go first too I think.
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