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Post by benjamini on Aug 30, 2017 12:49:59 GMT
I would suggest giving shock troopers a try with the UA if you haven't. I have been finding them to be an excellent choice thus far (with the caveat that they are not currently in a theme at the moment). Drakhuns are great as well! (and forge seers). Demo corps and bombardiers are still not where I would personally like them to be though (That being said, I actually liked demo corps in MK II, but they took a step back in my eyes in MK III ) Re: Malakov, I actually also think he isn't as bad as general consensus says he is at this time. I find a lot of his spells to be quite useful. His feat is far more useful than most people give it credit for, especially with a means to repair your jacks. Seen people using him more than any of the "Journeyman/lessers to full caster" options other than Zaadesh and Fyanna. Khador is in a far better place at this time than it has been in the past, there were some pretty dark years in the middle of MK II. Seeing other factions go through CID and come out in a happier place has made me optimistic about our future when our turn comes! Maybe all the lesser options, the kossites, the decimators, the democorps and bombardiers, the MOW kovnik, will get a good looking at in an environment where we can even provide feedback! ... that being said, if they use the CID to pull another hamfisted "fix" like the Karchev/Mad Dog nerf of legend, I will not be happy.
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Post by zerosequence on Aug 30, 2017 13:42:43 GMT
I would suggest giving shock troopers a try with the UA if you haven't. I have been finding them to be an excellent choice thus far (with the caveat that they are not currently in a theme at the moment). Drakhuns are great as well! (and forge seers). Demo corps and bombardiers are still not where I would personally like them to be though (That being said, I actually liked demo corps in MK II, but they took a step back in my eyes in MK III ) Re: Malakov, I actually also think he isn't as bad as general consensus says he is at this time. I find a lot of his spells to be quite useful. His feat is far more useful than most people give it credit for, especially with a means to repair your jacks. Seen people using him more than any of the "Journeyman/lessers to full caster" options other than Zaadesh and Fyanna. Khador is in a far better place at this time than it has been in the past, there were some pretty dark years in the middle of MK II. Seeing other factions go through CID and come out in a happier place has made me optimistic about our future when our turn comes! Maybe all the lesser options, the kossites, the decimators, the democorps and bombardiers, the MOW kovnik, will get a good looking at in an environment where we can even provide feedback! ... that being said, if they use the CID to pull another hamfisted "fix" like the Karchev/Mad Dog nerf of legend, I will not be happy. I agree that M2 is actually better than he seems on paper. I'm just saying that he is good but hardly meta shaping. But Legion of course gets another caster that immediately changes the game. It would be nice if Khador got consistent powerhouses for a change. On Shocktroopers... they are not terrible. I've actually played about 10 games with them in Mk3. They are just mopey like most Khador things. They don't play scenario well, are too easy to neutralize and don't make up their points I damage output. It's hard to justify them over just some Pikemen. Agree that Drakhun is a boss.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 30, 2017 13:47:52 GMT
I would suggest giving shock troopers a try with the UA if you haven't. I have been finding them to be an excellent choice thus far (with the caveat that they are not currently in a theme at the moment). Drakhuns are great as well! (and forge seers). Demo corps and bombardiers are still not where I would personally like them to be though (That being said, I actually liked demo corps in MK II, but they took a step back in my eyes in MK III ) Re: Malakov, I actually also think he isn't as bad as general consensus says he is at this time. I find a lot of his spells to be quite useful. His feat is far more useful than most people give it credit for, especially with a means to repair your jacks. Seen people using him more than any of the "Journeyman/lessers to full caster" options other than Zaadesh and Fyanna. Khador is in a far better place at this time than it has been in the past, there were some pretty dark years in the middle of MK II. Seeing other factions go through CID and come out in a happier place has made me optimistic about our future when our turn comes! Maybe all the lesser options, the kossites, the decimators, the democorps and bombardiers, the MOW kovnik, will get a good looking at in an environment where we can even provide feedback! ... that being said, if they use the CID to pull another hamfisted "fix" like the Karchev/Mad Dog nerf of legend, I will not be happy. I agree that M2 is actually better than he seems on paper. I'm just saying that he is good but hardly meta shaping. But Legion of course gets another caster that immediately changes the game. It would be nice if Khador got consistent powerhouses for a change. On Shocktroopers... they are not terrible. I've actually played about 10 games with them in Mk3. They are just mopey like most Khador things. They don't play scenario well, are too easy to neutralize and don't make up their points I damage output. It's hard to justify them over just some Pikemen. Agree that Drakhun is a boss. Hear you been dissin my boy Malakov! I dont like it! He pkays very differently then anything else in Khador Also your kinda ignoring all the NON faction defining casters. Niether the bane witch nor montebra 2 have done anything to cryx for instance.
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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 30, 2017 13:55:20 GMT
He's okay. I played with him once and he wasn't that bad.
His feat is a pain, unless you get hit by stationary. But it's still good.
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Post by benjamini on Aug 30, 2017 14:05:23 GMT
I agree that M2 is actually better than he seems on paper. I'm just saying that he is good but hardly meta shaping. But Legion of course gets another caster that immediately changes the game. It would be nice if Khador got consistent powerhouses for a change. On Shocktroopers... they are not terrible. I've actually played about 10 games with them in Mk3. They are just mopey like most Khador things. They don't play scenario well, are too easy to neutralize and don't make up their points I damage output. It's hard to justify them over just some Pikemen. Agree that Drakhun is a boss. I'm not sure why you feel something has to be meta-shaping to be worthwhile. In a perfect world no one thing would be. That being said, I am not a big fan of the subtle message that PP sometimes seemed to be sending that certain factions are Allowed to have meta-bending releases for years, and other get smote by the nerf hammer at the slightest stepping out of line. (Nerfing Haley has shown willingness to change at least). I agree it would be nice to see something come out ahead of the power curve, but I don't agree with you that we NEED that. Not like we want to be as hated as Cygnar and Cryx are in some circles after all.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Aug 30, 2017 14:38:30 GMT
I agree that M2 is actually better than he seems on paper. I'm just saying that he is good but hardly meta shaping. But Legion of course gets another caster that immediately changes the game. It would be nice if Khador got consistent powerhouses for a change. On Shocktroopers... they are not terrible. I've actually played about 10 games with them in Mk3. They are just mopey like most Khador things. They don't play scenario well, are too easy to neutralize and don't make up their points I damage output. It's hard to justify them over just some Pikemen. Agree that Drakhun is a boss. You and I have had VERY different experiences with MoW Shockies in Mark 3!
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Post by benjamini on Aug 30, 2017 18:01:22 GMT
Agreed, they are routinely MVPs when I field them.
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Post by zerosequence on Aug 30, 2017 19:44:51 GMT
How are you guys using them? All my opponent needs to do is send in one heavy and they die. Maybe not in one turn but pow14 non-charges really don't do much so they just sit and get wailed on.
And let's not forget the nonsense stuff like Ravagores, Lylyth3 Feat, Stormwall, Storm Strider, Thexus Feat and TK, Haley2 TK. So many of the common power pieces just destroy them.
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Post by benjamini on Aug 30, 2017 20:31:08 GMT
Depends on the scenario and caster I am using, but a few general pointers:
-You are NOT playing these things in a vacuum. No piece in the game plays in a vacuum, ever. Lists I field them in usually have some way of dealing with their issues, either a speed buff or a damage buff (both if possible).
-They are great for anchoring zones, and can be spaced reasonably far apart if you place the UA well.
-Assume they are going to be jammed if the opponents list has a tool capable of doing that, figure out what will likely do it, and have a game plan for dealing with it (some of this can be answered in list construction, I find something with sprays nearby is really helpful, but by far not the only solution).
-I also tend to position a squad of 6 them in two triangular formations with the "point" of each triangle facing the most likely thing or group of things to charge them (very hard for a non-2" reach heavy to kill more than two of them this way)
-If I suspect a heavy is likely to charge them, position a juggy (or whatever heavy you have) nearby to threaten a piece trade. It's usually pretty easy to predict where things will end up.
-Build the army so that you have things that are happy hanging out on the flanks and causing trouble.
-High Damage Gunlines (ala Sloan/Various legion dealies) are probably not a good drop, if you're in a 2-3 list format make sure one of your other lists can cover those threats. TK is something to worry about, but again, MOW are probably not your entire list... if Haley wants to spend her focus pulling apart 3-4 MOW... let her? It means she's not doing something else with it, and some of them will probably live anyway. MOW are just one part of your army.
-Always remember when you are feeling negative about something that the same can be said for lot of things. Iron fangs for example, die to snipers, corrosion, anatomical precision, fire, boosted blasts, non-weapon master charges often. Lots of things that MOW can shrug off. Not trying to say shockies are better than Iron Fangs, just that everything has a pro and a con.
Might be helpful to know how you have been using them? It's possible you're asking them to do things that they really can't do, or you may be playing into a very different meta than I am.
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Post by gobber on Aug 30, 2017 20:56:46 GMT
It's kinda ridiculous that after 3 editions this is the first caster in mow armor. At least it's the iconic one. Mows sucked for all mk2. No one was interested in seeing a mow caster. Still to be seen if people are ready for a spd4 caster that is not arcantric turbined karchev. ...since her prior versions have been the most mobile casters in faction, S3 being speed4 with only a single move action per activation seems *highly* unlikely.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 31, 2017 3:52:25 GMT
...since her prior versions have been the second most mobile casters in faction Fixed that for you (Sorscha 1&2 can move 17" in a turn, Strakhov 1 can potentially move 25" in a single turn).
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Post by Cryptix on Aug 31, 2017 4:05:12 GMT
...since her prior versions have been the second most mobile casters in faction Fixed that for you (Sorscha 1&2 can move 17" in a turn, Strakhov 1 can potentially move 25" in a single turn).
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kaos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 268
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Post by kaos on Aug 31, 2017 9:26:14 GMT
Mows sucked for all mk2. No one was interested in seeing a mow caster. Still to be seen if people are ready for a spd4 caster that is not arcantric turbined karchev. ...since her prior versions have been the most mobile casters in faction, S3 being speed4 with only a single move action per activation seems *highly* unlikely. Let's see, potentially a spd 4 caster with 6 focus is really bad. I hope they give her some shenanigans or focus 7.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Aug 31, 2017 9:51:54 GMT
I wouldn't worry. I highly doubt she'll be just a spd 4 walking 6 focus battery. I'm sure she'll have cool stuff!
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Post by zerosequence on Aug 31, 2017 11:45:30 GMT
I wouldn't worry. I highly doubt she'll be just a spd 4 walking 6 focus battery. I'm sure she'll have cool stuff! Lol. You guys have way more faith in PP than I do. I hope you're right! The concept is certainly a good one.
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