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Post by lamoron on Aug 25, 2017 9:05:26 GMT
With one week left before WTC list-submission H2 got nerfed. Post-nerf I don't much fancy playing her into Issyria and Ghost Fleet / Dark Host, which was the only reason I let myself get talked into playing her in the first place. Now what answers do we have in Cygnar, that can deal with both Issyria and Cryx, because I'm having a hard time figuring it out, and no time left to test out any builds 
Don't worry about models, as I have two Cygnar players I can borrow models from, so go crazy. I've got a Siege1 build I fancy into Cryx, but I think it would get annihilated by Issyria. |
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 25, 2017 9:21:04 GMT
conflictchamber.com/#c1201b8V9gc07ifMfM9naj9c8M9U9VCygnar Army - 75 / 75 points (Caine 1) Lieutenant Allister Caine [+30] - Grenadier [9] - Stormwall [39] - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4] Arcane Tempest Rifleman [4] Arcane Tempest Rifleman [4] Harlan Versh, Illuminated One [4] Journeyman Warcaster [4] - Firefly [8] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] Trencher Infantry (max) [16] - Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper [5] What can I imagine is this.... Caine1 can return the revenents dead quite easily, while Stormwall harrass charging Dawnguards or simply stop anything without much ARM. Aiyana is there for give Damage Type: Magical to Trencher Infantry, and with Snipe they can deal with the enemy well.
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Post by lamoron on Aug 25, 2017 9:26:37 GMT
Won't Issyrias bazillion Strike Force simply shoot the Stormwall dead, and then cruise to victory?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 25, 2017 9:27:50 GMT
Building for Cryx is certainly an issue at the moment, if you tech too much for Ghost Fleet you will just get Dark Host and be crushed. taking that into consideration I think the best option would be..... Constance Blaize!
Play her in Storm Division with a combination of Stormblades, Storm Towers and Storm Callers. Gallant is great into Cryx as he has spell immunity, and base def 13 as well as a magical weapon, Constance has a remove from play spell and an upkeep removal, she also gives undead stuff -2 to damage rolls in her control. into Issyria you can use storm callers as spark nodes for towers and fireflys to kill stealth stuff, her feat may be an ok counter to Issyria's ?
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 25, 2017 9:41:29 GMT
Won't Issyrias bazillion Strike Force simply shoot the Stormwall dead, and then cruise to victory? Mage Hunter Strike Force does it quite easily , but not Issyria. Still her strike force will cause serious damage to a Stormwall, but not enough to one round it unless they bring two. |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 25, 2017 9:50:33 GMT
Won't Issyrias bazillion Strike Force simply shoot the Stormwall dead, and then cruise to victory? actually if you snipe the Stormwall its covering fire templates are 14", 2" further than the range of Strike Force |
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Post by lamoron on Aug 25, 2017 10:07:15 GMT
Won't Issyrias bazillion Strike Force simply shoot the Stormwall dead, and then cruise to victory? actually if you snipe the Stormwall its covering fire templates are 14", 2" further than the range of Strike Force Now that is interesting. |
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Post by woutmaerschalck on Aug 25, 2017 10:22:23 GMT
Hey Lamoron
I'm finding myself in the same situation as you. Is it realy that bad though? You can still have a good game against all those lists. If you play a SWall and Firefly/Battle Engine you can still take out quite a few Strike Force from afar and feat on the rest of the list. One round of shooting should not take out a Swall. I think the days of Haley2 covering 90% of the field are done though...
Other possible solutions:
- Stryker2 ? Stormlances can engage MHSF from further and with the feat take out quite a few. Rebuke is good against BRiders in DHost when you can get a Lancer, or Thorn within 5.
- Play Sloan in HM with maybe two Fireflies. The Fireflies also threathen 18 with FGroup and under feat wil decimate a good part of the unit. Sloan can play into GFleet with these Fireflies in my opinion altough I haven't tested this myself. The problem will remain DHost with Coven...
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 25, 2017 10:40:01 GMT
Hey Lamoron I'm finding myself in the same situation as you. Is it realy that bad though? You can still have a good game against all those lists. If you play a SWall and Firefly/Battle Engine you can still take out quite a few Strike Force from afar and feat on the rest of the list. One round of shooting should not take out a Swall. I think the days of Haley2 covering 90% of the field are done though... Other possible solutions: - Stryker2 ? Stormlances can engage MHSF from further and with the feat take out quite a few. Rebuke is good against BRiders in DHost when you can get a Lancer, or Thorn within 5. - Play Sloan in HM with maybe two Fireflies. The Fireflies also threathen 18 with FGroup and under feat wil decimate a good part of the unit. Sloan can play into GFleet with these Fireflies in my opinion altough I haven't tested this myself. The problem will remain DHost with Coven... Coven Dark host will tear the arse out of Sloan, also Haley 2 has little to no game into Coven Dark Host now, Coven can afford to feat first and just run all the banes to threaten, then even if Haley 2 counter feats she cannot affect enough of banes, so she either loses too many pieces on her feat turn, or concedes on scenario too much |
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Post by lamoron on Aug 25, 2017 10:46:01 GMT
Yeah, I think it's that bad. There's just no way Haley can chew through Dark Host before getting overrun, and Issyria has blinding light which makes Stormstriders almost worthless. I can build to maybe deal with one of them, but they require vastly different tools so I don't see any way of building to deal with both.
Edit: The old Thunderhead-bomb with Haley2 might still give Dark Host a headache. Thunderhead on Jakes can pulse from 17" away, but keeping him safe from Blinding Light against Issyria is going to be rough. |
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Post by woutmaerschalck on Aug 25, 2017 11:17:27 GMT
Do you realy care about the Bane Warrios in Dark Host? Put down covering fire and they won't do much. Use your feat on the riders and you should be able to hold out, am I missing something?
The Stormstrider can hang back quite a bit against Issyria. She can run the arcnode up 12 and use Blight for 10 more so 22 Max. Stormstrider can get TA en TK for 24 inches. You can hang back in the first turn and target a SPod in the second turn to roast some MHSF.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 25, 2017 11:27:58 GMT
Do you realy care about the Bane Warrios in Dark Host? Put down covering fire and they won't do much. Use your feat on the riders and you should be able to hold out, am I missing something? The Stormstrider can hang back quite a bit against Issyria. She can run the arcnode up 12 and use Blight for 10 more so 22 Max. Stormstrider can get TA en TK for 24 inches. You can hang back in the first turn and target a SPod in the second turn to roast some MHSF. The problem is the Coven list plays so wide that two covering fires will not protect enough of your list, and if you do bunker up behind them you lose on scenario most likely |
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Post by lamoron on Aug 25, 2017 11:47:49 GMT
Do you realy care about the Bane Warrios in Dark Host? Put down covering fire and they won't do much. Use your feat on the riders and you should be able to hold out, am I missing something? The Stormstrider can hang back quite a bit against Issyria. She can run the arcnode up 12 and use Blight for 10 more so 22 Max. Stormstrider can get TA en TK for 24 inches. You can hang back in the first turn and target a SPod in the second turn to roast some MHSF. The problem is the Coven list plays so wide that two covering fires will not protect enough of your list, and if you do bunker up behind them you lose on scenario most likely Indeed, it's a right nightmare (empire) now. Hanging back against Issyria is also a sure way to lose on scenario. Stryker1 double Stormwall might be able to do it, but timing and scenario would be tricky. |
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Post by slinkdawg on Aug 25, 2017 14:18:16 GMT
Not sure how to handle blinding light. Siege definitely has some tools to get a bead on Issyria, but blinding light is pretty rude into a lot of our lists.
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Post by Demeritus on Aug 25, 2017 19:08:13 GMT
I'm asking because I honestly do not know, what is it about Issyria that makes her a hard matchup for H2? It seems like she was an issue pre nerf and now is an issue post nerf. Is it her feat? Is it Blinding Light?
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