faelin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 121 
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Post by faelin on Aug 17, 2017 21:41:00 GMT
What are some units/beasts/solos you would recommend to avoid picking up from a rules/play perspective?
Bonus Question: I understand blightwasps have a niche, from what others have told me. Do you ever find yourself running more then one unit in those niche lists/casters?
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 17, 2017 23:03:39 GMT
Warmongers
blight wasps are fun. "Niche" makes them sound more capable than they are. I run 2 units in an Abby2 list because it's entertaining. It works with her bonuses but I don't recommend them with much else.
Their fault is not due to their design but due to the meta of jack spam. They "can" damage a heavy with enough buffs, but you'd be better off using something else.
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Post by chillychinaman on Aug 17, 2017 23:03:47 GMT
Legionnaires and both varieties of Ogrun until they after their CID are finalized are the easy answers. A case can be made for Strider Rangers since their ranged game went down. The spawning vessel is mostly bad by extension since lessers and most of our infantry options are bad.
As for blightwasps, I would say take 2, a single isn't enough bodies and is trivially removed.
Finally, since PP is pushing for theme forces now, an even simpler answer would be anything not in a theme you plan on playing.
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Post by DanX on Aug 18, 2017 0:46:13 GMT
I think I largely agree. Warmongers are not worth making work. Everything else is ok in the right place, but the right place is I think rare,n except for Groteques, Striders, Swordsmen and Raptors who are great units in lots of lists. Archers, hex hunters, warspears, legionnaires, blightblades, blight wasps all need a lot of work to make use of but can be done. Theme forces make Hex Hunters/BFS/Raptors a good unit, because 2 themes can use. Ravens seems a poor theme. So striders and Groteques are hard to place in good lists. Swordsmen can only be used in children. Units are in a hard place for legion I think  |
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Aug 18, 2017 1:41:32 GMT
Warbeasts: Afflictors, Harriers & Stingers (unless you're running a Spawning Vessel), Nephilim Soldier.
Scytheans, Ravagores, Nephilim Protectors, Teraphs & Blight Wasps are niche with certain casters.
Units: Archers, Legionnaires, Scather Crew, Warmongers & Warspears.
Blackfrost Shard, Hex Hunters, Banshees, Spawning Vessels, Blightblades & Scouts are niche.
Solos: Beast Mistresses, Fyanna the Lash, Warmonger War Chief.
Incubi are niche.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Aug 18, 2017 1:57:05 GMT
Warmongers are awesome, but take more work than you might think.
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Post by maximumhippo on Aug 18, 2017 3:18:53 GMT
I think I largely agree. Warmongers are not worth making work. Everything else is ok in the right place, but the right place is I think rare,n except for Groteques, Striders, Swordsmen and Raptors who are great units in lots of lists. Archers, hex hunters, warspears, legionnaires, blightblades, blight wasps all need a lot of work to make use of but can be done. Theme forces make Hex Hunters/BFS/Raptors a good unit, because 2 themes can use. Ravens seems a poor theme. So striders and Groteques are hard to place in good lists. Swordsmen can only be used in children. Units are in a hard place for legion I think You lost me half way through. You say Grots are great units and then two sentences later say that they are hard to put in lists? Same with the hex hunters, saying they take a lot of work but then are good because of themes. Grots are good. Hex Hunters are good. Most of legion infantry is quite strong, ogrun being the notable exception. Raptors are amazing in theme or not, BFS is also always good. Ravens is a perfectly fine theme. Ambush on Grots and taking away AD is legit. Chillychinaman hit the nail on the head though, Basically if you're building towards a theme, don't buy stuff that's not allowed in that theme. |
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Post by cainuslupus on Aug 18, 2017 9:43:21 GMT
Warbeasts: Afflictors, Harriers & Stingers (unless you're running a Spawning Vessel), Nephilim Soldier. Scytheans, Ravagores, Nephilim Protectors, Teraphs & Blight Wasps are niche with certain casters. Units: Archers, Legionnaires, Scather Crew, Warmongers & Warspears. Blackfrost Shard, Hex Hunters, Banshees, Spawning Vessels, Blightblades & Scouts are niche. Solos: Beast Mistresses, Fyanna the Lash, Warmonger War Chief. Incubi are niche. Pretty much this. When it comes to Wasps, I run two in my Abby2 list and they do great amount of work there. They may see some use under Bethayne as Feat enablers, but that's probably all. They can't score as infantry and this is they msin dtawback in Sr2017 (other than being easy to kill, but you can work around that). |
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Post by Falcen on Aug 18, 2017 11:17:33 GMT
You just have to check the winning lists of the last few months to see what gets used.
BFS, Raptors, Hex Hunters and Wasps (if you count them as a unit) are what is used atm.
If you look further back (pre-themes) you also see Raiders, Swordsmen, Hellmouth and Strider Scouts.
The Spawning Vessel occasionally appears too, but as it seems only in specific builds.
Everything else seems experimental at best or outright bad. If you want to focus on "safe" investments then those are your choices. Sure, some players might be able to make other choices work in some metas, but it doesn't matter *that* much overall.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 18, 2017 12:42:26 GMT
Warbeasts: Afflictors, Harriers & Stingers (unless you're running a Spawning Vessel), Nephilim Soldier. Scytheans, Ravagores, Nephilim Protectors, Teraphs & Blight Wasps are niche with certain casters. Units: Archers, Legionnaires, Scather Crew, Warmongers & Warspears. Blackfrost Shard, Hex Hunters, Banshees, Spawning Vessels, Blightblades & Scouts are niche. Solos: Beast Mistresses, Fyanna the Lash, Warmonger War Chief. Incubi are niche. Sad to see this opinion. near everything listed has a completely valid place in the faction and serve their purpose well. I'm not trying to start an argument but the pieces listed as "niche" just aren't taken in every list or top tournament lists. That doesn't mean they are so terrible as to avoid. Everything we have can be played. If you build a list for certain interactions anything can be made to work well. |
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Aug 18, 2017 13:46:21 GMT
Let's put it this way. if I'm recommending future purchases to a player I'm unlikely to recommend anything on that list and instead recommend purchases that are more widely useful and don't need specific list interactions to be made to work.
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Post by dxman on Aug 18, 2017 15:29:04 GMT
Yeah, I'd say you're both right for the most part. Starting off with the staples is likely the best move when starting out, but there are plenty of pieces I'd hesitate to go so far as to call them "niche". That short-changes what they're capable of when you make an informed and deliberate decision to include them. And when I say that, I'm not referring to the cases where people go all-in, bending over backwards to make a unit work. Sometimes, a less popular piece is just what a list needs.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 18, 2017 16:16:58 GMT
Let's put it this way. if I'm recommending future purchases to a player I'm unlikely to recommend anything on that list and instead recommend purchases that are more widely useful and don't need specific list interactions to be made to work. true. You'll get more common mileage out of swordsmen and Raptors than you would blightblades or what not. I'm just more stubborn and will work to make an unpopular idea succeed. So yeah, I try not to recommend things but more play devils advocate for why certain models/lists/idea shouldn't be written off as "bad". |
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Post by Cheesebeard on Aug 18, 2017 19:37:23 GMT
Warbeasts: Afflictors, Harriers & Stingers (unless you're running a Spawning Vessel), Nephilim Soldier. Scytheans, Ravagores, Nephilim Protectors, Teraphs & Blight Wasps are niche with certain casters. Units: Archers, Legionnaires, Scather Crew, Warmongers & Warspears. Blackfrost Shard, Hex Hunters, Banshees, Spawning Vessels, Blightblades & Scouts are niche. Solos: Beast Mistresses, Fyanna the Lash, Warmonger War Chief. Incubi are niche. I largely agree here, and would make the following additions: Warbeasts: Blightbringer Niche: Archangel, Zuriel Units: Banshees (from niche) Niche: Grotesque Raiders (really only when you're building a list around them) BFS and Hex Hunters I think are better than niche, but not really a good choice most of the time; they're just easier to work into a list concept than the niche pieces Legion, I think, has probably the smallest selection of "competitive" infantry choices in the game at this point. I expect that to be looked at in CID. |
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Aug 18, 2017 19:50:44 GMT
Zuriel is almost auto include in CotD and work great there. He is also very good with Twins. I think is good for character warbeast. Not staple but far from niche IMO.
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